#1 Re: LT45 » What is the actual defense bonus in a city? » 15.10.2018 16:16:57

Yes it is C.
And yes 1 OR 1 is 1.
There is no point fortifying in a city. You do not gain anything.

#2 Re: LT45 » What is the actual defense bonus in a city? » 13.10.2018 12:43:25

This topic was previously discussed here - The best possible defense value for a unit in a city

Caedo wrote:

All the different bonuses in Freeciv's supplied rulesets are multiplicative, since it's never possible to have multiple Defense_Bonus effects applying at the same time. However, as with any effect type, the values of all active effects are simply added, so if there's one Defense_Bonus effect with a value of 50 for a city of size 9 and another with a value of 100 for city walls, they're the same effect type and thus added up, giving a total value of 150, or +150% (or *2.5).

The part that puzzles me is that there appear to be two 50% bonuses for cities smaller than size 8. One hardcoded and one in the effects.ruleset.
I looked back and this was also the case in LT32. In that game I certainly tested attacking cities. I never noticed an extra 50% defence.

This was also mentioned by Caedo in the thread linked previously.

Caedo wrote:

EDIT 2: Also, there seems to be an additional +50% Defend_Bonus in a city, apart from the built-in factor of 1.5. However, this defense only works against land units.

#3 Re: LT45 » What is the actual defense bonus in a city? » 13.10.2018 09:50:21

I agree. Your formula is not correct.

The two effects for city size are -

type    = "Defend_Bonus"
value   = 50
reqs    =
    { "type", "name", "range"
      "CityTile", "Center", "Local"

type    = "Defend_Bonus"
value   = 50
reqs    =
    { "type", "name", "range"
      "MinSize", "8", "City"
      "CityTile", "Center", "Local"

A size 2 city only gets the 50% bonus once not twice.
A size 8+ city gets both bonuses. Once each. It gets a 100% bonus. (You add the bonuses then multiply, not multiply by first then multiply by second.)

A green Phalanx in a Size 2 unwalled city on on a hill defends at 4.5
A green Phalanx in a Size 8+ unwalled city on on a hill defends at 6.0

To be certain we need to look at the source code.

In combat.c lines 544 to 533 however it does look like you get the city bonus twice.
It seems strange to have effects that allow the values to be modified in the ruleset,
and then combine that with a hard coded value in the binary.

  defensepower +=
    defensepower * tile_extras_defense_bonus(ptile, def_type) / 100;

  if ((pcity || fortified)
      && uclass_has_flag(utype_class(def_type), UCF_CAN_FORTIFY)
      && !utype_has_flag(def_type, UTYF_CANT_FORTIFY)) {
    defensepower = (defensepower * 3) / 2;

return defensepower;

The page http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Combat is almost useless at explaining this properly.
"These factors are combined, thus a city built on a hill with a river that has city walls is very hard to conquer. "

#4 Re: LT45 » Delegations » 13.10.2018 09:20:28

Orisson seems to be gone again. He missed last turn and does not respond today. If he does not return I will take delegation at the end of this turn.

#5 Re: LT45 » On Isolated Positions and Fairness » 06.10.2018 05:19:08

Wieder in LT32 the map was shared before the game and start positions were chosen in a very fair transparent manner.
Teams chose city spots one at a time from a big list of possible sites.
Everybody could see what was going on.
I agree it was complicated, but it needed to be so to be completely fair.

That the winning team chose the best starting position is not really a surprise.
Our strategy was based more on Go than Chess.
But it still took 8 months of intense play for that win to be realised.

LT32 was a far superior game to LT44. I much prefer an open map with chosen placement, than the random unfairness we have now.

#6 Re: LT45 » Idlers » 30.09.2018 13:37:16

I'm surprised my team is the only one talking about idlers. I thought there would be many in this game. It was the reason I wanted more test games. I thought that would help us find the idlers and delete them before the start. I agree with Wieder once the game has started it is too late to remove nations from the game.

I prefer a real player to be in our team rather than have a delegation so introducing Buggy is a great idea.
I don't know how long this will take, or whether other teams may object. Thank you cgalik for your positive  "it's fun to play team game with someone in your house" comment.

I remember in LT32 one of the team captains Duncan Shriek disappeared after team choosing never to return. He had been a regular and reliable player beforehand.

I would like to take the delegation of Nirte from this turn until Buggy is approved, or longer if he is not. When he is added to the game he will be at the same level as everyone else.

#7 Re: LT45 » LT45 will be restarted because of error in player settings » 29.09.2018 05:59:07

ha, you're lucky.
back in the old days we played longturn without wrapping the map.
some players were stuck on a strip 1 tile wide that went round the edge of the map.

#8 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 26.09.2018 13:34:36

I just got an email from emilio saying he is fine with the swap shoter to team 1, emilio to team 0.

I much prefer that the players who are going to be swapped get the chance to say yes or no themselves.

#9 Re: LT45 » The test for LT45 has been restarted » 24.09.2018 19:45:09


the fix for 2.3 is here http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=103

diff --git a/LT30/data/lt30/effects.ruleset b/LT30/data/lt30/effects.ruleset
index 097d7df..994c4c5 100644
--- a/LT30/data/lt30/effects.ruleset
+++ b/LT30/data/lt30/effects.ruleset
@@ -44,24 +44,6 @@ reqs  =
 name    = "City_Unhappy_Size"
 value   = 4
-; Barbarian effects
-name    = "No_Diplomacy"
-value   = 1
-reqs    =
-    { "type",   "name", "range"
-      "Nation", "Barbarian", "Player"
-    }

-name    = "No_Diplomacy"
-value   = 1
-reqs    =
-    { "type",   "name", "range"
-      "Nation", "Pirate", "Player"
-    }

#10 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 23.09.2018 11:11:51

In the first test game Temmikael was included twice, and Petromax was missed out.
I hope this gets fixed for the second test game.

#11 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 23.09.2018 05:28:09

It seems to be an okay deal. - Emilio against Shoter? I agree.

Am still finding this secret captain issue strange. I have no idea who our team picker was, so have no clue why emilio was chosen for our team in the first place.
I have no direct knowledge of either emilio or shoter.
It would help me feel easier about this whole trade idea if both of them would actually state that they wanted to be in a different team.

#12 Re: LT45 » Test Game 1 has started - Preparing for Test Game 2 » 22.09.2018 18:27:12

wieder wrote:

I'll edit the actual teams to the next test game. However I'll still include myself to one of them so that I can test myself.

Great. You are welcome to join team 1.
I've always enjoyed playing with those pesky East Germans.

#13 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 22.09.2018 04:35:06

cgalik wrote:

FYI the captains are not revealed. smile And Wieder won't get involved besides running the script. So it's up to us.

This concept of secret captains is absurd. I do not know who is the captain of my team. I suspect it is Wahazar.
And yet cgalik - who I assume does know because he is one of the captains - is trying to poach Wahazar from our team.
Given this situation I now reject all swaps from our team, until some clarity emerges.

Starting the game before another test game does not make sense. Only 15 players logged onto the test game. There are currently way too many players idle.
I would rather play a game with 15 real players playing 1 nation each, than each of those 15 players having to play 2 nations because of idlers.

#14 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 21.09.2018 19:42:27

Corbeau wrote:

... I'm not the team captain,... I'd like to hear from our captain ....

Me too.

#15 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 21.09.2018 13:41:23

btw - who are the captains and how were the teams chosen. ?

And Corbeau thanks for our team logo. I am not sure teams 4 and 5 will like theirs though.
I propose team 1 is called team matrix.


FluxBB bbcode test


#16 Re: LT45 » The LT45 test is going to start tomorrow + the teams will.. » 21.09.2018 11:38:56

I missed this thread. And from the lack of players in the test game so did most everybody else.
It is why I suggest a second test game using the actual teams.

ps Times need to mention the Time Zone eg 19.00WT = 7.00pm Wieder Time.

#17 LT45 » Test Game 1 has started - Preparing for Test Game 2 » 21.09.2018 11:34:08

Replies: 15

The first test game has been running for a while. But not many players know about it.
I would like the second test game to be advertised here on the forum 24 hours before it starts.
It would be best if that test game used the actual teams.

I think the team captains should contact their team and encourage participation.
It will help to find out the number of idlers in this game before the real game starts.

#18 Re: LT45 » Here are the teams (not that east to read, yet) » 21.09.2018 11:29:53

I'm fine with any swaps as long as both the players who are being swapped agree.
I also think Corbeau is perfectly within his right to reject any swap if it imbalances his team.

If Kunki and orisson are friends.
And also Wahazar and  Shoter.
Then it makes sense to have friends play together.
But I want confirmation from the players being swapped.
I don't want to swap an active player for an idler.

Currently I don't know the status of any players being mentioned for swapping other than zoe.
zoe has written here, hence zoe is active, hence I would like to keep zoe.

#19 Re: LT45 » Can team-mates trade cities? » 16.09.2018 16:47:33

Corbeau wrote:

Why is swapping cities in order to protečt techs bad?

Because we have already experienced it back in the days when a small group of elite warclient players traded all their cities multiple times each turn.
It gave an enormous advantage to those few who knew about all the 'tricks' possible.
The longturn majority rejected such gameplay and adjusted the settings in future games to avoid it.

#20 Re: LT45 » Can team-mates trade cities? » 15.09.2018 10:12:43

In LT45 set team_pooled_research=disabled. I don't know why.
With this setting it would be a really bad idea to allow city trading.

#21 Re: LT45 » Can team-mates trade cities? » 13.09.2018 04:12:08

The settings from LT32
set diplomacy=TEAM
set trading_city=enabled

City-transfers between team mates was useful, and not abused in LT32. Although in that game all team members had the same tech, am not sure if that is the same here.
The best example on my team, was the transferring of Pipo from an isolated, sacrificial outpost in the middle of enemy territory to a safespot at the rear.
It kept him in the game until the end, even though all his original cities were captured early on.
The tactic was highly beneficial to us, because it wrecked the chances of our strongest neighbour, before the game had even started.

#22 LT45 » Why is there only 1 hut? » 05.09.2018 16:14:45

Replies: 3

In all longturn games prior to LT43 there were no huts in longturn games.
That was changed to exactly 1 hut in LT43. That new rule was inherited by LT44 and now LT45.
I didn't play LT43, so am curious "Why is there only 1 hut?"

To see this - look in file LT45.serv
set huts=1

Is this an error? - the code used to be
set huts=0

#23 Re: LT45 » Signups open (again) for a while » 01.09.2018 10:38:37

Am I too late?
My first choice is of course team wieder, I've always enjoyed those pesky East Germans.
If not please put me in Xandr's team. Black / Chaos - perfect for the pirate nation.
If I have to be a captain, assign me a random group of players and call us the rainbow nation.

#24 Re: ScenarioGame 1 » SG1 comments from IRC. Channel #longturn on Freenode » 05.12.2017 00:38:37

" that was about 70 turn game ended right after Steel with a game ending wonder unifying Germany"
No - the first 5 Bismark wonders had been built quite a while ago. We extended the game to have some fun attacking idler cities.

#25 ScenarioGame 1 » Game Over - Bismark Tower is in Koblenz » 05.12.2017 00:33:52

Replies: 0

The final scores are below. The winning player is Los Pepes who built the Bismark wonder.

The game was a science race between the North and the South, which the South easily won. No major combat between active players occurred.
The two alliances on the South shared tech but did not fight together.
The winning alliance of Kevin551 and Los Pepes managed to take out 3 of the idler nations.


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