What will happen when somebody hast an alive nation with for example unhomed explorer somewhere in deep jungle? Traditional rule was connected to have at least one city to be able to object.
What will happen when somebody with poor score away from top 5 players will lunch spaceship? Will he win or not?
If you want to write in global, ok.
Please talk to Pipo, what was talking about our NAP.
But maybe it will be faster if Iw ill wrote:
NAP has two clausles:
-Left 8 tiles between any city of NAP allies building.
-Do not attack each other.
Everytime I was buildig a city closer then 8 tiles, i have asked for permittion, if I didnt know there is a city existed, I was asking for permttion.
After first time I have asked we hav edecided it is good tradiotion for our NAP to ask if we are not sure about it if anybody can place a city.
Thats why i always send an explorer or alpine to check if anything is closer then 8 tiles.
I have been talking with Kocurek too, and siad to him that i will restrictly treat our NAP when he is going to , but he broke it.
Two Bamskamp cities has only 5 tiles between, didnt he see border once he built them? He should close his eyes for it.
Ok, it was about first clause, now second:
What is a difference in "Non attacking each other" when you attack and die and attack and win? For me, none.
It was your breaking NAP points, do you have ours? No because we didn't broke NAP, since I did fatal mistacke.
Did you read this as Pipo declaring the end of the NAP?
Everybody in our alliance took it as it was. When he didn't has alive nation and wasn't part of your ally what is exactly time I broke nap?
It is ok to attack when fail, so if I attack to fail, it was ok. But a dot time after my attack was success he was not part of NAP and was not obligated to say a word. Are we talking about this tick of time, shorter then a 1/100 sec?
Cgalik wrote something after him, and he wasn't object Pipos words.
edrim, I expect something in compensation for attacking a capital during a NAP, the resulted in killing a player on our team. Any proposals?
Do you really want to talk about breaking NAP? And payments because of it?
What is a difference in broking NAP if someone attack with success and without success?
Can I attack your units in NAP and lost? Saying, ok nice, you got upgrade in veteran levels.
I can pay this player I attacked, but sadly he had only one city, how is it come?
Now it is a game of dirty tricks, I hope you will not write everything we are using in bad way once you are doing same.
So I take it, that the other players in our alliance are not obligated to respect our NAP anymore.
For me it is clear, NAP is over because of me. Do you want to add anything?
NAP was broken so many times from your side that I don't care about it anymore.
how can you frankly compare the importance of a minor TC exploit with the fact of having trade routes mistakenly enabled in this game??
It is simple, for you this bug is a minor, for me not, when i am planing where can my enemy reach in one turn I am not able to predict that he will go 30 tiles or more.
Some players (Cgalik for eg.) ask to show how somebody get such big amount of techs in one turn, it is easy, once rr halves revenue of caravans player producing tons of caravans before rr and establish them in one city to get bonus from entrance only, then get some nice amount of bulbs which he can use - this player who was mentioned to get this hudge amount of bulbs is not researching 10 techs every turn, but better to accuse someone who is taking techs in pack then himself to use minor bugs.
In other hand, now I am writing to Cgalik team, did you found interesting bugs in ruleset that will let you win? I wrote my explanation how it can be done, now it is your turn, are you going to something specific and get this wining tech or just race to spaceship?
Yes, if you have enough engineers on a boat to transform ocean to swamp in one turn, the 10 hour unitwaittime will not apply. I assume this happens for any unit that is "moved due to changing terrain" but I am not sure. I learned about this in LT35. Maybe I should have waited for a TC when Edrim was not online, to leave a little more mystery as to why ocean near him was changing into swamp
As I said, we are fighting here with RTS playing, especialy on TC, you are using bugs for it, even when you so criticise using caravans as a bug.
This is sad because nobody can prevent using this bug in this game anymore.
Happy RTS playing guys.
And I guess you're still mad at me and the rest of us for still trying to figure it out as a community how to best play LT37?
If you belive that caravans will be on in LT37 you are in mistacke thinking.
Caravans are evil and nobody wants to play a game with this mess again.
I will vote to set flag nobuild to caras and frigs. It is quite good to let players build wonders without help of caravans.
There is known, not only in this game but for a long time, that we are fighting with double moves (for those who are not know what I am talking about: it is a double move over TC, make your move just before TC, like roads, fortress and all other stuff, and then make your moves with same units just after TC, so you can have doble moved once somebody is offline), we have spent many hours to invent how to prevent it.
There are very ethical guys in this game, which accused some other players for using caravans once they knew idea about it quite same time in game, but start flame war about using caravans, ethic, etc. with a view that using exploits are out of them.
Maybe now is a part of a game that explain mechanism of exploiting double moves over TC by terrerian changeing.
We are happy to play this game longer then others wants because of finding bugs and other situations that should not be able to do.
Can you write an algorithm how you are using double moves? I am talking to Drew now, because I saw how he used his boat double move in TC T89/T90, this is a bug which should be corrected in next game and has nothing to ruleset we are playing on. Maybe some other players will want to use it and don't know that it even existed, same like caravans.
Cgalik asked in his post how to research multiply techs in one turn (even it was known by him from at least 20 turns), so I think it is ok, that I am asking how to exploit unitwaittime?
Is it possible to fix the border issue? (In LT36 when a nation builds a city near another nation's border, the borders do not change). In a small map this will be very important.
This is not a bug, this is feature, if you build a city and try to steal neighbour tiles you cannot:)
Guys, if you dont have time for playing and winning (loosing takes much less time) try to focus on LW, there are only 8 cities games and nobody is going to micromanagment 50+ cities.
All LT games in the end are horrible to do all moves propely, if they Caravans or not. Winners usually spending an hour or more per day to get it to the end.
Please hands up who didn't know that in end stage this game takes much more time then in the beggining.
I dont speak about it with my other allies, but I will ask them about it - it would be fair to end game if you havent started your own caravan rushing.
So maybe I will try to force them to not to decline winning post if you say thay nobody of you started caravans mess after you knew an idea what is going on, because it is not ethic to use them in this game or anything else brought you not to use them.
Because if you didn't started producing caravans for your own grown it would be fair to end a game as it is, of course if any other alliances is not against it (ending game before it enter to end stage wars).
I do think that Drew deserves to be part of the winning 'pack'. I think that anybody that reaches the level he has, without artifices, deserves some recognition.
Please reconsider your objection or give us, the poor losers, an alternate quick ending.
Come one, Drew was grow without any danger from any side, it is only simcity, all your ally set NAP's with all your neighbours and could grow without even think about defend or whatever. You guys took many players together to massive ally, grow ASAP and want to win with tech and production supermacy.
But now when it is opposite side to your, you are trying to play on emotions and ethics and try to end this game by writting winning post and ask nobody reject?
End games are never quic ending, but only one side are in good mood on it (except this freak game with T180 ending).
I doubt your wolfpack would even consider accepting such radicouls winning post as it could stay like it was prepared, you as a superrior 8+ members ally demolishing every other nation. LOL.
Last time when we has mass caravans in LT you have been in caravans abuse team, did you changed so well that now you are not accepting this way of exploits? And yes, we were 5vs15 nations.
Now when you are quiting from playing LT you are trying to ruin other pleasure and trying to create bad spirit here.
Should we write to rules that if one team will get supperior over rest of a board then all others deserved do win should ask about stop game because of nosense of ending a game.
I have played couple of times to the end in loosers side, this is very painfull, but there is three ways: you can keep playing doing everything to die hard, just quit playing logging one time for 10 turns not to be idled, or trolling on forum to have own pleasure and destroy mood of winners (I used to combine first and third way).
But now lots of players can take it like admins do something bad, they put exploits to ruleset and use them in special ugly way. Now we are not. As i told caravans was invented in our team by accident because of strange behaviour. I will always do anything I can to win against coallition with doubled of size then other alliances ingame. So now we have spent a little more time to think how to win with you. There was only one ally with 8 members, and other alliances was at least half of yours and have wars for all the time. But you have NAPs with anyone else and could grow to have superiority.
What about our NAP, is it ended in same turn you wrote winning post?
I dont get it, we cannot attack you because of NAP but should accept victory post even if we dont know what is the ranking of all players?
When you write a winning post somebody else can deny it and winning post is invalid, thats what is in this point about winning by Telegraph.
I believe I announced these on global chat.
Why not on forum, this chat is so overwritten with so many messages, some people, or even more then some (I am reading chat but i dont remember it, it could be on massive chats or without my attention), may be not noticed your quote.
I read no one trying put the blame on him for the existence of a bug.
Bug would be when you buyng a wonder and pay no cash, it is mistacke of creating ruleset and describe it. He wanted to switch off caravans but forgot (or didn't know if it is exist) about something.
Maybe you understand message like: "I am not calling you a cheater, but this what you are doing is disingenuous" (I dont even know what does it mean), in other way then I am.
Or another try: "You should let me know how you do it, because it smells me a cheating", once game is on and secrets still on board.
If someone thinks someone else is a cheater he should write a sentence stright, then everybody else should write their own sentence and we can decide who is ok, propably cheater or a man who is calling a cheater someone else.
It is like ask ilusionist to show how he is doing his tricks. Some other exploits are being used for couple of games before everybody knows the trick and said that should be forbidden (eg. teleportation - at least in 3 games in a row).
Anyone wants to create ruleset for LT38? Starting from multiplayer, because wieders ruleset may include some bugs we don't know even existed.
AFAIR nobody wanted this job and we may stuck in 2.3, but now everybody are so fragile about bugs and using them.
If someone will find something usefull in his future reulesets you will crusified him again and again? Or it will be only when specyfic players (not in your wolfpack) will find a way to easy win.
Anyone from crusifiders has tested this ruleset in test game? Hands up who has tested it, maybe only those people may have credential to spoil pleasure of playing.
Now everybody are so clever and righteous.
For you it should look like that: <wieder> hey guys our nap is ending in 20 turns, but you may not know there are caravans involved into science, so get your wolfpack together, max your sci and kill us in a way of glory.
Remember nobody wants to deal and help alliances that have more players in then average in board, so why anybody should sell this information to you?
After all we thought you knew that caravans are on because of this showing Marco Polo wonder again and again.
First of all we are not changing rules once game has been started.
If only couple of players tested ruleset rest of them should blem themselfs not to check how next game will be and what's new in 2.5.
There were so many other tricks (I am calling them legal exploits), such teleporting units from one part of board to another, tech trading via city even if techtrading was disabled, password sharing, TC double moves, spending 24h/day in game, automatic moves, etc.
Once someone is inviting new good trick (exploit), he may have a hudge chance to win a game. If community says it is a win button we are trying to switch it off.
You may accusition players (me?) that can use caravans, if you are think it is eveil do not use them, show that you are above this exploit and play without caravans still, it may show others what is a proper way.
When I dont like something and think it is not right I am not using it, even if I could have better chance to win. No big deal.
I think I was the man who has found that caravans are something more then usual, it was in time when everybody researched a Trade tech and show it to other started and stopped built MarcoPolo Embassy. I thought: "Whats wrong with this tech if everybody shows that they have it already", I have clicked in research screen on Trade and saw caravans on Trade tech. It is not very clever to check if caravans has ability to establish routes or not.
So, please do not write about reading ruleset with getting secret information from it. Only man who has read it was wieder, but imo he wasn't able to read with full understanding if he passed it. We are all to lazy to read documentation at all, some of us can find some specyfic information about specyfic unit or building, but nobody read it at all.
Game was announced as a bug-like, but as I wrote we are not changing rules if option could be used in this game already, we can chage some settings but only if they are not be able to be used in this game already.
Once game has started admins become players, and play and treat others like players not admins. There would be not funny game if we stay as an admins in game. One game we are all in one pack, other we are separate. Usually players joined together everytime (because they known each other), it was even a Church nearly LT30, when gossip says that it was an ally from game to game, we have a lot of fun and some flame wars about it but still we are friends and nobody cares about "The Church" or maybe there is The Church still draining caravans from very beggining.
In the last word: If you know me or not - I dont like Wolfpacks, if there are a wolfpack or two I am spending much more time to win with them, then other simply games. If you group in pack more then usual couple of players prepare that you cannot think you are safe, because sheeps are going to be evil in this situation.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, which is the way you took it? Still don't understand... you're asking why it took me so long to post it? "This is something new?" Like this is new to this LT game, or something I did was new? Edrim, I know you hate "wolfpacks" and I think best to put that on it's own topic, as this one was trying to help everyone understand how best to play LT36.
But still your post is something not visible for ages, starting flame wars in time that game didn't even enter in end stage. This is something new.
I have bold rest of sentence that is something new. Do not try to be in bad mood once someone will paste your tircks or list of wolfpack on forum in next games. This games are about tips and tricks, whoever start use new trick has always adventage.
In other hand it is good that you wrote it here, maybe some people will write you some tips how to get those techs in such radiculus rate. If not, maybe there will be no explenation after a game because of this topic. idk.
Mass caravan strategy is very good known in LT, maybe there is nothing in akfaew forum, but try to search something in maho's forum on archive.org there are plenty about it.