#1 22.07.2018 15:26:13

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 158

Blue Team Morale extremely low?

I've heard grumblings that Blue Team's morale is pretty low, and that some key players are thinking of quitting.  In turn 33!

What's going on?  What happened?

I know from my Red-team perspective, things have been going pretty well.  We have gained ground on 2 fronts, are holding on the 3rd (though there was a recent victory there), and have a tech lead, and managed to prevent Blue-Team from scouting our land.  So I'll admit things are looking pretty good for us.

But it was not at all clear to me that Blue team is totally and utterly doomed.  The major wars haven't even begun yet!  There is still unsettled land!  Cities haven't even hit the sewer-limit!  This is still pretty early in the game.  What happened that Blue team has had such dismal prospects for continuing to survive?

I know losing battles, losing cities, bad luck swinging against you, all of these are un-fun.  But you're still a team aren't you?  Or is that the problem?  Red Team has had a good time chatting on Discord, coordinating and sharing plans, and chatting.  But maybe Blue Team hasn't had the fortune to develop as a Team. 

If that's the case, I can definitely understand the defeatist attitude of key players if they feel they are working alone and carrying the weight of the team, only to have their victories slip through their fingers.  Without a team to back me up and only able to look at my own dismal projections of the future, I'd certainly feel doomed.

But all of that is pure conjecture.  What's actually going on on the other side of the Isthmus?

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#2 23.07.2018 10:46:11

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 873

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

Like I said in several places, if someone is doing badly and has no fun playing, there is no point in him continuing in order to provide fun for the opponent. In such cases it is reasonable to surrender and start a new game.

A downside of this particular game was that there were too many players for a team game and most didn't get a real taste of it or it was too short. I think team games should have less players and a better selection process to avoid idlers.

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#3 23.07.2018 15:56:59

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 158

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

And maybe a 3-team game so that there is less zero-sum "It looks like we're losing, game over!".

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#4 23.07.2018 21:02:55

Momo
Player
Posts: 13

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

So when do you stop having fun? When your last warrior dies to a stealth fighter? Or when you lose your first battle when there could be thousands more to come?

And, let's say you have every right to be annoyed; in this case, couldn't you just delegate as some before did? Unless i'm missing something, what Zoltan did was to take 40 players' month investment and throw it away like a spoiled child.

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#5 23.07.2018 22:29:50

Wahazar
Player
Posts: 149

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

Only some players have extremely low morale and are quitting prematurely.
I can understand, that vacation time produce many idlers, which can be frustrating, but such issue is probably on both sides. I even have barely no internet now, must load modem and hang it outside window to catch any signal, but I will surrender only if any others declare that want to quit.

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#6 24.07.2018 03:42:43

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 158

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

Wahazar wrote:

Only some players have extremely low morale and are quitting prematurely.
I can understand, that vacation time produce many idlers, which can be frustrating, but such issue is probably on both sides. I even have barely no internet now, must load modem and hang it outside window to catch any signal, but I will surrender only if any others declare that want to quit.

Well now that's very interesting.  It was heavily implied in the "League of Civs" lt-44 discord chat that Zoltan had the right to make such a declaration for Blue Team, but he never outright stated that he was acting on behalf of Blue Team to resign the game.  It seemed like a rather unilateral decision, to be frank.  "It's just like resigning from a chess game"

So as far as I'm concerned, Zoltan rage-quit, Fran went on a vacation without designating a regent, and nobody bothered to make a Team-Delcaration of "Blue Team as a whole, surrenders".  Apparently they think they are more important than the team.  Does the rest of Blue Team agree with that sentiment?

Blue Team was behind and losing ground.  Blue Team was unlikely to pull off a victory.  But after the deliberate disbanding of all of his units, Zoltan has inflicted damage that Blue Team cannot possibly recover from without deliberate restraint on our part.  Zoltan is going to hand over to Red Team more cities than we have managed to conquer all game.

After such a betrayal, I'd advise Blue Team to surrender, since one of their team-mates has clearly thrown the game.

Last edited by Hans_Lemurson (24.07.2018 03:46:04)

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#7 24.07.2018 07:23:53

Caedo
Player
From: Germany
Posts: 70

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

I'm not exaclty following this game, but I gather that one player of the "losing" team rage-quit by disbanding their entire army, thus weakening the rest of the team?
If so, this raises a big question – how do we prevent something like that in the future? Ruleset changes to forbid disbanding units in team games? That would require features that aren't included in 2.6. Only allow veteran players that are unlikely to pull something like this in team games? That would make team games a lot smaller. Try to get as many players as possible into a team game, so that one player giving up doesn't affect the balance too much? That comes with all the logistical problems of having many players. Temporarily suspend or permanently ban players that do this from LT? Not sure we'd want that either.
The alternative, if we want to keep two-team games at all, might be to add more opportunities to turn the tide – I'm not sure what kind of opportunities, but there has to be something.

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#8 24.07.2018 07:27:26

fran
Player
Posts: 156

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

Hans_Lemurson wrote:

Fran went on a vacation

fran is never on vacation.

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#9 24.07.2018 08:17:13

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 158

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

Caedo wrote:

I'm not exaclty following this game, but I gather that one player of the "losing" team rage-quit by disbanding their entire army, thus weakening the rest of the team?
If so, this raises a big question – how do we prevent something like that in the future? Ruleset changes to forbid disbanding units in team games? That would require features that aren't included in 2.6. Only allow veteran players that are unlikely to pull something like this in team games? That would make team games a lot smaller. Try to get as many players as possible into a team game, so that one player giving up doesn't affect the balance too much? That comes with all the logistical problems of having many players. Temporarily suspend or permanently ban players that do this from LT? Not sure we'd want that either.
The alternative, if we want to keep two-team games at all, might be to add more opportunities to turn the tide – I'm not sure what kind of opportunities, but there has to be something.

From his perspective, he was just doing the sensible thing and deciding that the game was over because he couldn't see any chance of victory.  All of the fronts were going in Red's favor, and we had a lead on technology and wonders.  The hope of victory was just going to become dimmer as time went on.  And since he is a very busy and important man, he has no time to spend on any game where he is not winning.  Besides, the game was never fair from the start!  He knew that Blue was doomed from the beginning, so why play out the farce?

He planted some sneaky back-line cities via the clever use of Triremes and Rivers, cutting off an inexperience front-line player from reinforcements, and giving himself a base of operations.  When that city was Incited by a lucky Diplomat on turn 32, that was the last straw for him.  His plan suffered a nasty setback, and so it was now Game Over
You know how there was a game?  Zoltan says there's no game any more.
Either Zoltan's plans succeed, or Zoltan doesn't play. 
And if Zoltan doesn't play, nobody plays!  Hurray for the mighty Zoltan!

Pictured: The Last Straw.  Volyni under new management. 
BVUnrB8.png
The well-defended fortress of 'Most' was seized after its garrison evaporated this turn, as was the sneaky surprise-city of Orgachiv that had caused us much worry.  You can see at the bottom of the image several captured workers near Syuxtun (they were walked into our territory), and the city of Baranoviki is empty.  Some of his cities still have defender-flags, so it's clear he didn't do a total disband job.


I am of course being a bit unfair here.  You can't force somebody who is not having fun to keep playing for your own amusement.  I'm totally fine with Blue Team giving up if their players don't wish to continue.  Get the next game started.  I am NOT, however, fine with unilateral action without any discussion.  If you are going to end a Team Game, do it as a TEAM.

fran wrote:
Hans_Lemurson wrote:

Fran went on a vacation

fran is never on vacation.

Fran is the watcher on the walls, the shield that guards the realms of man.

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#10 24.07.2018 23:44:05

zoltan
Player
Posts: 19

Re: Blue Team Morale extremely low?

Losing the last front was indeed the last straw for our team.

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