#1 26.05.2013 08:42:34

Kryon
Player
Posts: 327

LT31 Winner Claims

I am sure more than 7 players will claim victory but some players demand this to be official so here it is:

This thread is for survivors of LT31. If you are survivor, you can:

- Claim victory
- Accept defeat

If you are a survivor and do not respond to this thread for 10 days (until June 5th) then you'll be considered as defeated.

If more than 7 players claim victory, game will have no winners.

Last edited by Kryon (30.05.2013 17:45:47)

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#2 26.05.2013 09:08:22

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Being on the offensive and one of the most powerful nations, I claim victory.

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#3 26.05.2013 12:09:38

cgalik
Player
From: Chicago
Posts: 150

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

I do not claim victory.

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#4 26.05.2013 15:53:44

kyrilus
Player
Posts: 3

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Accept defeat (I've survived, and that's enougth for my 2nd LT game)

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#5 26.05.2013 16:02:39

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

I claim victory.

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#6 26.05.2013 17:32:05

IllvilJa
Player
Posts: 51

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

I accept defeat, as explained elsewhere.

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#7 27.05.2013 19:31:52

sokrat
Player
Posts: 10

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

I have been quite passive and i don't claim victory.
Thanks to my allies and sorry for not being more involved in team building.

There have been many changes in the rules since my previous LT game, and i much apreciate the new ones.
Thanks for the evolution.

PS : May be someday we will play with battles resolved at TC, with units all as one, instead of i-send-units-one-by-one-while-my-enemy-is-offline wink

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#8 28.05.2013 00:20:48

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Please make a poll to change the longturn rules before you make these claims.
All longturn players get to participate in a discussion of the the rules, not just the ones who played this game.

5.3 A teamless game can be won by one player, or an alliance formed by a number of players no bigger than was agreed upon before the game started, by either:

    Military defeat of all other players.
    Winning the space race (if enabled).
    Surrender - all other live players have surrendered.
    Another condition, agreed upon before the game started.

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#9 28.05.2013 06:39:06

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

kevin551 wrote:

Please make a poll to change the longturn rules before you make these claims.
All longturn players get to participate in a discussion of the the rules, not just the ones who played this game.

5.3 A teamless game can be won by one player, or an alliance formed by a number of players no bigger than was agreed upon before the game started, by either:

    Military defeat of all other players.
    Winning the space race (if enabled).
    Surrender - all other live players have surrendered.
    Another condition, agreed upon before the game started.

Good point:)

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#10 28.05.2013 14:09:54

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

I have decided to claim victory in this game.
According to the logic of the people supporting this thread the winning condition for this game states

"If more than N/10 (alive) players claim victory by turn 180, the game will be ended without any winners"

I am not a player. I am not alive. Therefore I claim victory. My victory can only be stopped if more than N/10 (alive) players claim victory themselves.

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#11 28.05.2013 14:43:09

mmm2
Player
Posts: 565

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

i do not claim victory.

thanks to east germany ruled by Wieder for sparing my final hideaway home city of Sarejevo. I still alive smile

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#12 28.05.2013 16:59:16

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

The (alive) and players specified in your quote defeat your claim for victory Kevin. as you said, you are neither.

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#13 29.05.2013 00:07:48

mrsynical
Player
Posts: 171

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Dimitril wrote:

The (alive) and players specified in your quote defeat your claim for victory Kevin. as you said, you are neither.

You don't understand. He can still claim victory. They only way he cannot claim victory is if "If more than N/10 (alive) players claim victory by turn 180".

Note It seems like you actually had to claim victory by turn 180. To me "by turn 180" means "before turn 180". I believe that the time to claim victory has already expired.

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#14 29.05.2013 00:35:48

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

The game was ended at turn 180. The time to claim victory is still valid for any alive player. Edit: seems like it ended on 181, but me and Grendel made our claim on 180 and in some case ''by'' can mean the following turn.

Also, there is no mentioning of non player, Kevin claim is baseless if you know anything about legal writing.

Last edited by Dimitril (29.05.2013 15:49:28)

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#15 29.05.2013 08:42:45

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

mrsynical wrote:

I believe that the time to claim victory has already expired.

I agree, once we went to T181 game should be over without winners, or win alliance should make a winning post that should agree all of ingame-living players if there is any. Is it any winning post? Did all players claimed victory were in one alliance?

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#16 29.05.2013 10:42:12

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Kryon wrote:

I am sure more than 7 players will claim victory but some players demand this to be official so here it is:

Ranking Page wrote:

Soif a smaller alliance wins, losing players lose more points and winners sharemore points among fewer players (a double advantage).

Do you have any definition of alliance in this situation? Kryon's ranking born after Marduk's ranking in previous version of LongTurn, it was some:

Marduk's Ranking wrote:

Definition of terms:
II) Alliance: Group of players who are either allied directly or at least indirectly (player X allied with player Y; Y with Z; so X indirectly with Z)

Can you clarify what exactly mean in your ranking that "alliance win"?

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#17 29.05.2013 12:02:45

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

I have another nice quote:

LT31 poll wrote:

It seems the first vote to limit alliance size to N/6 will pass. However there are many players who wants a smaller limit. But we can't have multiple choice polls. So, we need another poll for a stricter limit. Shall we limit the alliance size to N/10 (N is the number of players and N/10 will be rounded to nearest integer)? If more than N/10 (alive) players claim victory by turn 180, the game will be ended without any winners. If both N/6 and N/10 polls pass, the stricter limit (N/10) will apply.

Am I wrong or you write that you want to limit alliance size? I will ask again, what do you mean by alliance? You are old player and should know what is it, because we have had nice flame wars about it in past.

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#18 29.05.2013 17:13:14

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Actually, when we got to 181 without 7 claim for victory, game shouldn't have ended.

In the end, this is Kryon decision. I'm proposing a rule so this doesn't happen again: http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=290

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#19 30.05.2013 16:48:58

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

In the end, you can just say I disagree, I claim victory or I surrender. So we can get this over with.

Last edited by Dimitril (30.05.2013 16:49:50)

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#20 30.05.2013 17:23:54

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Dimitril wrote:

In the end, you can just say I disagree, I claim victory or I surrender. So we can get this over with.

Yes, i can do it in the end, but i am trying to say that it is nonsense to do it. There is some rules here in this way we are breaking this rules with this nonsense topic. If it will be no other way i will abandon it by claiming but i want to know what Kryon has to say about winning alliance. Kryon is a man who broke rules in past (as i remember), so this fit to his way of being here. I hope i will not be forced to abandon this by claiming in last day.

There is only 3 players on this nonsense claiming list, for now:

akfaew
Dimitril
kevin551

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#21 30.05.2013 17:40:39

Kryon
Player
Posts: 327

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Edrim, good question. To me, when several players claim victory, it is assumed that they were allied. So it doesn't have to be an official alliance. But for this to work, I should also offer a third option to alive players (object other's victory claims) in addition to the two options I mentioned (claim victory, accept defeat). Otherwise if all surviving players (assuming there are less alive players than the limit if a limit was set) claim victory they will all be winners and game will end even if there are 2 or more groups still fighting each other. However, since we have many more than 7 alive players, third option will probably be unnecessary.

Last edited by Kryon (30.05.2013 17:47:10)

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#22 30.05.2013 18:50:59

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

To me this whole poll being voted is a non sense in is own, especially since it had no fail-safe. But I had to do with it since it was voted before I even registered.

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#23 30.05.2013 21:10:03

Lord_P
Player
Posts: 116

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

This claim the win and get everyone to agree system doesnt seem to work too well if toomany think they are the winner tongue
Shouldnt the winning player and the scores player achieve be determined in a way that is based on pure numbers and can be clearly calculated on the end turn?
Heres a suggested method:

-All starting players get an equal stake in the score, kind of like it is now.
-The game ends at a clearly defined turn, say 180.
-All players who have been killed before this turn get zero points. The points they started with go in the pot so theres an incentive to be agressive and wipe out players before the end.
-The remaining players get the total points divided proportionately between them, based on Civ score (Or another method of scoring if the basic civ score is insufficient, but it must be based entirely on stats that can be extracted from the game)
-Whatever scoring method is used, points should come out roughly equivalent to typical scores with the old ranking so it can be continued.

So, huge alliances and stalemate endings are fine, but then everyone is going to get a pretty average score when its divided.
If a huge alliance of smaller players and a single strong player reach a stalemate, the stronger single player will come out with a bigger score than all the individual allies, rather than the declared winner of the alliance getting all the points on the backs of thier comrades.

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#24 31.05.2013 01:57:51

det0r
Player
Posts: 166

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

Lord_P wrote:

This claim the win and get everyone to agree system doesnt seem to work too well if toomany think they are the winner tongue

The simple solution would be to avoid these massive alliances so that the number of alive players at end game is sufficently low.

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#25 31.05.2013 02:18:07

Dimitril
Player
Posts: 83

Re: LT31 Winner Claims

det0r wrote:
Lord_P wrote:

This claim the win and get everyone to agree system doesnt seem to work too well if toomany think they are the winner tongue

The simple solution would be to avoid these massive alliances so that the number of alive players at end game is sufficently low.

The number of player from the church doesn't seem to be the problem here.

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