#1 12.06.2014 16:59:21

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

LTeX25 preparation

We will probably be skipping Freeciv 2.4 and moving straight to Freeciv 2.5. It hasn't been released yet, but protocol and ruleset has been frozen. I'll try to move our longturn auth changes to the 2.5 code soon. In the meanwhile Windows users could test the client, to see if it works as expected: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=315

I made a github repo, so that all changes can be seen, and all code easily available: https://github.com/longturn

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#2 30.06.2014 03:32:59

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

akfaew wrote:

In the meanwhile Windows users could test the client, to see if it works as expected: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=315

The windows client being tested above is for gtk3. This does not work well and will not be the default for Freeciv 2.5 (gtk2 remains the default). It is not a good idea to base opinions on Freeciv 2.5 by testing the faulty client.

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#3 30.06.2014 10:22:06

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LTeX25 preparation

kevin551 wrote:

The windows client being tested above is for gtk3. This does not work well and will not be the default for Freeciv 2.5 (gtk2 remains the default). It is not a good idea to base opinions on Freeciv 2.5 by testing the faulty client.

Are there builds of the gtk2 version? I don't use Windows so I don't know. We probably shouldn't start the game while it's Linux-only.

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#4 04.07.2014 03:33:18

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Yes, there is a beta0 of version 2.5 for windows gtk2

http://download.gna.org/freeciv/package … -setup.exe

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#5 07.07.2014 07:10:23

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Am currently porting the longturn ruleset to 2.5
Will post a diff in a few days.
One change to the server I think I will undo is that cities on a hill no longer get free irrigation if they have a mine. I will add an effect to keep the older behaviour. Am also tempted to revert the civ2civ3 setting that hill cities only get 50% defence bonus instead of 100% which was the default before. Any thoughts? Objections?

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#6 07.07.2014 19:25:51

Nimrod
Player
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 58

Re: LTeX25 preparation

kevin551 wrote:

Am currently porting the longturn ruleset to 2.5
Will post a diff in a few days.
One change to the server I think I will undo is that cities on a hill no longer get free irrigation if they have a mine. I will add an effect to keep the older behaviour. Am also tempted to revert the civ2civ3 setting that hill cities only get 50% defence bonus instead of 100% which was the default before. Any thoughts? Objections?

Is the entire ruleset using Civ2Civ3, or do you simply want to cherry pick that particular setting (defense bonus on hills) ?


========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

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#7 08.07.2014 03:39:23

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Longturn has used the same ruleset for LT31, LT32 and ladder wars. It will also be used for LT33. It is this ruleset that will be ported to FreeCiv version 2.5
I am going to call this the Longturn ruleset because it is quite different from the civ2civ3 ruleset on which it was based.
In particular Longturn has small wonders, no trade, and greater movement than civ2civ3.
Also the new Longturn ruleset will not include any of the recent changes to civ2civ3 unless we specifically decide to put them there at a later date.

Nimrod-  I welcome you and the other recent arrivals from Greatturn. I hope you can make a positive contribution to the community.

Last edited by kevin551 (08.07.2014 03:48:07)

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#8 08.07.2014 06:28:45

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 811

Re: LTeX25 preparation

LT32 had some changes compared to LT31. Here you have talk about changes.

http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=225&p=1

For LT32 the empire sizes were made less limiting and more units were able to actually conquer cities instead of just emptying them. Kryon's comment from LT31 gives some idea about that "I suggest Big land should be able to take over cities. Chariot, tank and mech inf are right now unable to take over a cities and it does not make sense to me."

Then again while there were many changes, LT32 for most parts had the same ruleset as LT31.

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#9 08.07.2014 06:52:10

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

True there are minor changes to each game but the base ruleset remains the same.

I think this ruleset should become an official stable 'Longturn Ruleset' We should try to add it to the official freeciv list of rulesets. It does not stop us making minor modifications each game or even playing some games with radically new rulesets, but it does mean we have a base working ruleset that can be used in multiplayer games. Logically it should replace the useless multiplayer ruleset that is currently inside official freeciv.

An advantage to getting listed inside freeciv proper is that some of the rules that longturn has used for years are not included in any other ruleset. (For example veteran_move_bonus). When the developers add new features to movement rates they do not have to take into account the extra moves a veteran unit has because no official ruleset uses this feature.

And I do think minor modifications are necessary. An example hill defence I mentioned above. Infinite moves on rails. For now I will just make the ruleset the same and offer extra patches so that we can modify it if we want to.

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#10 08.07.2014 15:52:21

Nimrod
Player
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 58

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Thanks folks !

I can't speak on behalf of all former GT players here, but I certainly hope to bring some positive to the LT community smile

Can someone refresh this old timer's memory: Did Big and Small Wonders first appear in Book's ReWonder ruleset ?

I know that I've played GT games with that before, with slight modifications. Loved the concept. Will have to get used to zero trade routes sad

So, bottom line, this eX game will simply be the same ruleset as LT33, but for Freeciv 2.5 correct ?


========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

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#11 10.07.2014 04:11:30

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

kevin551 wrote:

I welcome you and the other recent arrivals from Greatturn.

It seems Greatturn went down and will stay down for the near future. The entire site is now on sale for 180 Euros. Perhaps someone will buy it and resurrect GT. I doubt it though. It is a real shame to lose a vibrant freeciv community. There are so few of them.
http://civland.org/greatturn/

I hope everyone from Greatturn who comes here will find the community as welcoming. Be warned though the games are far more competitive.

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#12 10.07.2014 10:40:10

evan
Player
Posts: 70

Re: LTeX25 preparation

another GT refugee...
Hi,
I hope people are wrong about GT being down permanently - to say it's a shame doesn't come close.
I was playing GT11, which was a great scenario XYZ created based on Game of Thrones. Does Longturn have scenarios like this? The chance to play such a different game was a lot of fun, even if it hasn't lasted long. (hopefully just so far)

So I've registered for LT33, and was wondering if anyone has a rough idea about how long it'll probably be before the game starts? How many players are you aiming for? I want to go over the ruleset variations and familiarise myself with the community before it begins. I gather there will be at least a week's notice. Is that correct?

I wonder if the new GT arrivals will be natural allies?
I've read a warning here that LT is more competitive - sounds like the honourable challenge of a worthy opponent...

So is it really just 180 euros that stands in the way of getting GT back up and running? If there's anyone out there who is able to take over the administration I'm sure we can cover your expenses. Speak up before the community disappears. Even just to know that the break is temporary will make all the difference, people will hold on, and help.
Some people are uncomfortable talking about money, which is fine, people are different. But people are also good at different things, which is what makes humans so strong. I simply don't know enough about the hardware or the software to save GT, but I can give money, and I'm sure there are many, many others who would do the same. This game is just too good to let an entire block of experience and community fall away. We all want this game to keep growing and keep getting better, which it is doing, but it doesn't need setbacks - avoidable setbacks. How many people out there will be disillusioned by this and never come back?
The thing that makes freeciv so good is that it's evolved through the playing itself - the players have created the game. Eighteen years and counting. This is remarkable. The balance between the pure strategic elements essential for a game to be worth playing again and again like chess, and the "simulation" of the history of human civilisation has been worked out through the many tens of thousands of games.

This GT crisis has lead to a good thing - that connections are being made between the GT and LT playing communities.
That can only be a good thing.
evan

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#13 10.07.2014 14:53:10

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Hi Evan - this is really a thread about LTex2.5, so I would prefer to reply to you elsewhere. I will link the reply here when I have done so.

I replied here http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=402
Can comments about Greatturn please move to that thread.

Last edited by kevin551 (10.07.2014 15:10:43)

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#14 10.07.2014 15:00:11

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

I have finished porting the longturn ruleset to version 2.5 and am testing for errors.
Have come across one significant  error in freeciv 2.5 so far.

Setting init_city_radius_sq =15 does not work.
This is a default setting in longturn games.

To reproduce the bug open the game.ruleset in any of the supplied rulesets and set init_city_radius_sq =15
Start a game and build a city.
It is not possible to move the citizens onto a different tile by clicking them. Although the city governors still work normally.
I have reported this to the devs. http://gna.org/bugs/index.php?22302

I will continue testing to see if there is a simple workaround, otherwise it looks like we will have to play with smaller cities for now.

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#15 10.07.2014 15:17:06

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Kevin, I sent you an email, but maybe you didn't get it. I don't have any other way of contacting you. Can you contact me?

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#16 11.07.2014 06:02:52

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Sorry I missed the email. Have now replied.
The 2.5 ruleset I created is based on LT32.
I assume a diff file of the changes can be applied to the LT33 ruleset with only minor modification.

Given that freeciv 2.5 isn't usable yet in a serious game I suggest we use the ltex game to test out some of the new features. Make railroads have finite moves...
I also like the 7 city challenge idea that was suggested earlier in the ltex2.4 thread.

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#17 12.07.2014 14:48:19

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

There is now a patch for 'init_city_radius_sq =15 does not work'.  We will be able to use the longturn ruleset when beta1 comes out.

Interestingly it would have made no difference if the longturn ruleset was official. The official experimental ruleset was also broken by this bug but no one had noticed.

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#18 17.07.2014 04:42:13

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

The patch to revert the no free irrigation if mined change is - this reverts the new behaviour to the traditional one we are used to.

; give +1 food to hill cities with a mine
; this reverts the newly changed no free irrigation if mined
[effect_municipal_water_system]
type    = "Output_Inc_Tile"
value   = 1
reqs    =
    { "type", "name", "range"
      "Terrain", "Hills", "Local"
      "Special", "Mine", "Local"
      "CityTile", "Center", "Local"
      "OutputType", "Food", "Local"
    }

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#19 21.07.2014 09:02:14

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

The beta1 version of 2.5.0 is now out
look here http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

init_city_radius_sq =15  bug has been fixed

Have just noticed another alteration to the legacy rules, cities built on rivers do not get an automatic road until bridge building has been discovered.

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#20 21.07.2014 14:39:07

Nimrod
Player
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 58

Re: LTeX25 preparation

List of changes from 2.4 to 2.5 can be found here:

http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/NEWS-2.5.0-beta1

Personally I hate that Bardo's civ2civ3 ruleset will eventually become the "default" ruleset. This move towards Civ3 is a mistake, IMHO. Removing rapture growth and other elements of "classic" Civ1 / Civ2 cheapens the game and insults the memory of the original game. Why do we allow ourselves to be influenced by the commercial version of the game anymore? We should stand on our own. Anyhow, my rant for the day.

/End of rant.


========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

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#21 19.09.2014 04:30:56

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

Longturn made a  fortunate decision to stick with version 2.3 for the current games. I have been testing the beta1 version of 2.5 and there are numerous errors. gtk3 doesn't work well yet. The later version of gtk2 used in 2.4 and 2.5 has a lot of  language issues. There also seem to have been new networking bugs added.

http://gna.org/task/?7760: Make Gtk3 client usable as default client
http://gna.org/bugs/?21038: Many GUI problems with CJK input method => replace gtk2 DLLs with version >=2.24.14
http://gna.org/bugs/?22549: 2.4 client fails to start server on Windows
http://gna.org/bugs/?22651: The freeciv-gtk2 client crashed when trying to connect to freeciv-gtk3 server

But I have a working LT ruleset for 2.5 and think we should start an ltex game in a month or two. Maybe these issues will be fixed by then, but also by actively testing the new release we will find more bugs earlier. We are more likely to use version 2.5 in LT34 if as many bugs as possible are fixed first.

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#22 21.09.2014 18:12:43

pipo
Player
Posts: 59

Re: LTeX25 preparation

I hope the new LTeX will be up soon.

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#23 24.09.2014 10:26:06

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LTeX25 preparation

I started working on LTeX25. Here is the repo:
https://github.com/longturn/freeciv-S2_5
It's a bit ugly - it's a git repo of a svn repo of the S2_5 branch. I couldn't figure out a more elegant way to do it, while maintaining the ability to easily sync with upstream.

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#24 25.09.2014 08:14:30

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LTeX25 preparation

We'll be able to start a LTeX25-beta1 this week, I hope. Any suggestions about the settings we want to test? Anybody wants to make a ruleset/scenario?

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#25 28.09.2014 15:09:46

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LTeX25 preparation

I have a longturn ruleset ported to 2.5 It's essentially LT32 without teams. I suggest we start from that.

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