#1 09.04.2014 05:14:31

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

This setting passed. I think it was a mistake. In retrospect it opened up a new Turn Change exploit. By researching a few bulbs less than Combined Warfare it was possible to research Nuclear Fission in the last few minutes of the turn by swapping targets. The team that does it can change production targets to nukes and build them immediately. The opponent has little chance to steal the tech because time is short and the defenders are online. The only viable counter-tactic to this is to use automated diplomat attack scripts that can steal rapidly without being threatened by rts.

I don't like Turn Change exploits and I don't like attack scripts so I suggest we revert back to all the accumulated bulbs are lost if you swap the research target. (Note you get them all back as long as you swap back to the original tech target in the same turn)

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#2 09.04.2014 12:47:19

cgalik
Player
From: Chicago
Posts: 150

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

I completely agree with kevin. The more TC exploits we can remove the better it is for LT.

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#3 10.04.2014 00:08:49

mmm2
Player
Posts: 565

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

hmmm for me the convenience of switching techs and not having to overly micromanage planning of techs far outweighs this small exploit of nuke eta'ing...

the other eta abuses are 100 times more worst than this nuke trick: ie, end turn road/forting with workers, and making 2 for 1 moves right before and after the "10 hour freeze"..

this is quite a trivial issue, and probably penalizing 50% is good idea I guess..

Last edited by mmm2 (10.04.2014 04:32:24)

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#4 10.04.2014 03:54:48

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

kevin551 wrote:

... The only viable counter-tactic to this is to use automated diplomat attack scripts that can steal rapidly without being threatened by rts.

mmm2 wrote:

...  for me, this is quite a trivial issue

Really?

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#5 24.04.2014 04:27:13

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

On further thought I have reversed my opinion on the tech change penalty. It is actually a useful tool in preventing TC exploits.
Collecting tech in the middle of the turn is a good thing if the benefits occur right then rather than at the next turn change.

Examples from the game include - collecting espionage mid-turn and upgrading all diplomats immediately, collecting metallurgy and upgrading all cannons to artillery immediately.

In the normal game a tech is researched at TC. Everyone waits for those important tech to be developed by being online during TC. There is a race to steal the tech as quickly as possible and then a boring wait as both sides wait for the other to log out so they can use their new tech first. This is much worse TC behaviour  than that described above.

It is a better game if the player with the stored science bulbs can take the tech he needs at any time and not be tied to TC. I would like to encourage this. Let's create a dummy tech that is always available and can never be researched. A new tech called tech-store that costs 1,000,000 bulbs. By holding your bulbs in the store you can research tech at any time you want.

To counteract the nuke example above we need to create a new unit eg. 'V2 rocket' that comes before nukes. A rocket without the nuclear warhead. By researching nuclear fission you are able to upgrade the  'V2 rocket'  into a nuke.

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#6 25.04.2014 08:34:02

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

I like your idea Kevin, remeber it to make a poll for it in LW2

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#7 25.04.2014 09:34:43

mrsynical
Player
Posts: 171

Re: Poll: tech_change_penalty

On the other hand ... I also like it that you have to pick a tech and commit to it until it is completed (or get penalized with bulbs). Maybe we can do both, you have the option of researching a "false" tech (or swapping), but if you want to swap you get penalised X bulbs.


kevin551 wrote:

On further thought I have reversed my opinion on the tech change penalty. It is actually a useful tool in preventing TC exploits.
Collecting tech in the middle of the turn is a good thing if the benefits occur right then rather than at the next turn change.

Examples from the game include - collecting espionage mid-turn and upgrading all diplomats immediately, collecting metallurgy and upgrading all cannons to artillery immediately.

In the normal game a tech is researched at TC. Everyone waits for those important tech to be developed by being online during TC. There is a race to steal the tech as quickly as possible and then a boring wait as both sides wait for the other to log out so they can use their new tech first. This is much worse TC behaviour  than that described above.

It is a better game if the player with the stored science bulbs can take the tech he needs at any time and not be tied to TC. I would like to encourage this. Let's create a dummy tech that is always available and can never be researched. A new tech called tech-store that costs 1,000,000 bulbs. By holding your bulbs in the store you can research tech at any time you want.

To counteract the nuke example above we need to create a new unit eg. 'V2 rocket' that comes before nukes. A rocket without the nuclear warhead. By researching nuclear fission you are able to upgrade the  'V2 rocket'  into a nuke.

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