#76 31.07.2014 13:34:47

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LT33 ruleset

Yes, those are the settings.

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#77 31.07.2014 15:05:26

ifaesfu
Player
From: Huelva - Spain
Posts: 93
Website

Re: LT33 ruleset

Wow!

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#78 31.07.2014 18:12:42

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT33 ruleset

ifaesfu wrote:

Wow!

Yes, Wow, some players of us like citytrading and others hate it. Same like techlost.

History will judge this settings:) Researching on trade cities, research chains, no techlost means if you will not enter in mega alliance in start of a game you are our of a board. This will be fun and lots of hate at the end.

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#79 01.08.2014 09:54:17

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LT33 ruleset

ifaesfu, I was supposed to set city trading to disabled, but I forgot. It's good you noticed it.

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#80 01.08.2014 10:25:22

Haken
Player
Posts: 7

Re: LT33 ruleset

Alliance sucks. It Needs so much communication.

The ruleset should be fair, so that there is no dependency of he size of the alliance.

So it is the most easy way to win:  just make big alliance at the beginning.
For alliance players there should be the team games.

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#81 01.08.2014 11:09:38

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 811

Re: LT33 ruleset

How would you discourage the players forming alliances? Even in a team game there can be allied teams even while only one team can win and all trading between teams is prevented.

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#82 01.08.2014 12:36:04

ErgoProxy
Player
From: Cracow, Poland
Posts: 3

Re: LT33 ruleset

Gentleman agreement, wieder. Gentleman agreement!

Seriously though, it would require coding and thus is barely probable to happen... what I mean is: if we had this techloss-out-of-thin-air patch, we could have a fight-bonus-out-of-thin-air for troops of every player holding no membership in any alliance. This would not prevent informal agreements of course. But the idea is to force players to choose between benefits from civilized behaviour and benefits from rouge behaviour.

Back on solid ground, I have nothing to say against this ruleset (yet).


--
In my spirit lies my faith
Stronger than love and with me it will be
For always
- Mike Wyzgowski & Sagisu Shiro

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#83 01.08.2014 13:08:56

ifaesfu
Player
From: Huelva - Spain
Posts: 93
Website

Re: LT33 ruleset

I think the power of the alliances with the military aid is more than enough. Adding tech and city exchanges forces everyone to take part from the turn 0 in a tech sharing orgy that speeds up the game a lot without involving any strategy. Just to be online chatting and negotiating techs.
Also, no restrictinfra makes much more important the turn change attention.
The 25% in diplcost lacks importance.

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#84 01.08.2014 14:29:29

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 619

Re: LT33 ruleset

ifaesfu, we had restrictinfra in a previous game and it was very slow. So it's not so obvious if setting it on or off is the proper way. It's best if each game has slightly different settings from the previous one. Chatting and negotiating became an integral part of the game, and is an important factor if you want to win - such is the nature of this game, I see no way around it.

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#85 01.08.2014 14:56:48

ifaesfu
Player
From: Huelva - Spain
Posts: 93
Website

Re: LT33 ruleset

Of course, those chats about you give me this tech and I give you this other one is a part of the game if it's enabled, but it seems this only encourages very big alliances (officially or under the ground, it doesn't matter).
After having played some games with minimal or even zero tech exchange, I now think on this setting of the game as a broken one for this kind of multiplayer game. When 20 players join, who will build archers, catapults or legions if muskets are already there? It is all about being in a big tech chain to be up to date.
What it's true is that adding restrictinfra disabled the game will be much faster.

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#86 02.08.2014 06:29:28

kevin551
Player
Posts: 285

Re: LT33 ruleset

akfaew wrote:

we had restrictinfra in a previous game and it was very slow.

Am not sure what you mean by 'slow'. In LT32 restrictinfra made attack much more complicated in all but the late stages of the game. This make attacks 'slower' in the sense that you have to plan them more carefully and spend longer online to do them. But it didn't effect the effect game length.

Blitzkrieg attacks along rivers were still possible and made the game more exciting but also didn't effect the actual game length. In the latest version of freeciv restrictinfra can also apply to rivers.

The game length in a massive game is usually determined by the pace of tech. That was the case in LT32.

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#87 02.08.2014 13:48:34

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 478

Re: LT33 ruleset

kevin551 wrote:

The game length in a massive game is usually determined by the pace of tech. That was the case in LT32.

Set diplchance to 0 and no tech trading, so every player can have only techs he has researched, less researchcost and we can try tricky settings, no techchain but lots of new exploit invented:)

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#88 03.08.2014 12:02:12

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 811

Re: LT33 ruleset

"Set diplchance to 0 and no tech trading, so every player can have only techs he has researched, less researchcost and we can try tricky settings, no techchain but lots of new exploit invented:)"

I would really like to see this happening for LT34. Not for LT33 because now it's time to do some tech trading but for LT34 or some other game.

For LT33 it's worth noticing that there actually is a sort of techloss involved. If you don't have enough bulbs to cover the 25% cost of the tech you received, you will lose one random tech at the TC. This is really something everyone should know. Yeah, it's not really that bad and you can probably get that tech back next turn, but there is a risk involved. You can lose the government you are currently using and that may result with some issues big_smile

But really. I would love to see a game with all tech trading disabled including stealing the techs. In the future big_smile Not now.

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#89 03.08.2014 21:29:47

el_perdedor
Player
Posts: 38

Re: LT33 ruleset

please! everyone on his own.


*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
                                                             "bla bla, bla bla blablabla bla!"
                                                              -el perdedor!!!
                                                              12. July 2014 12:20 am

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#90 04.08.2014 15:10:09

Nimrod
Player
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 58

Re: LT33 ruleset

ifaesfu wrote:

I think the power of the alliances with the military aid is more than enough. Adding tech and city exchanges forces everyone to take part from the turn 0 in a tech sharing orgy that speeds up the game a lot without involving any strategy. Just to be online chatting and negotiating techs.
Also, no restrictinfra makes much more important the turn change attention.
The 25% in diplcost lacks importance.

I agree wholeheartedly with ifaesu on this, especially the restrictinfra. Just want to be on the record about it, given how the game has already started. This is based on previous experience in many a GT game where restrictinfra was either on or off. With Civ2Civ3 becoming more and more the "default" ruleset for upcoming Freeciv versions, it will simply become the norm. Not that I'm advocating that particular ruleset (I used to like it, to a degree, but am more and more opposed to it as time goes on and changes are implemented).

My 2 cents wink


========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

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#91 06.08.2014 08:37:06

Lord_P
Player
Posts: 125

Re: LT33 ruleset

Come on,  bardo's ruleset is awesome!  The best thing about it is that it is so balanced. There is no single obvious winning strategy like in the old rules, so even experienced players can get suprised by someone trying something different.
Yes, sometimes a really annoying exploit gets found that ruins a game, but I would rather that than being forced to do the same old trade, rapture and then stockpile missiles and howitzers because that's the only way that really works. ...

Anyway.  Each to thier own smile

Just want to confirm something.  Does 25% research cost apply when capturing/stealing tech from cities? So even as nation that relies on taking tech instead of researching, or a nearly defeated nation fighting a more advanced enemy, you still need 25% of the research cost banked or you will lose something randomly?

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#92 06.08.2014 14:58:02

Nimrod
Player
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 58

Re: LT33 ruleset

@ Lord_P

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of good in Bardo's ruleset! I used to enjoy playing it a lot.

But latest changes are quite upsetting. For example, forcing attacking units to move into defending units' tile should the attacking unit be victorious. The intent is to make city siege warfare more fair and interesting, but instead defenders are now in a very bad position and city defense becomes extremely problematic. Any attempts to counterattack a siege assault from within the city virtually guarantees that the counterattacking unit is killed off by nearby hostile units.

It makes sense when you think about Knights rushing beyond the city walls to attack a catapult laying siege to the city. It doesn't make much sense for a city Catapult that takes out a nearby unit to then move *out* of the city walls after winning the battle. I've tried reasoning with him about this, but he's pretty adamant about it. Grrr !

There's also a lot to be desired about the way that land transformations are unilaterally changed. We had a lot of back and forth about this on the old GT forums. I won't bore everyone with a long rant, however.

Last edited by Nimrod (06.08.2014 14:59:57)


========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

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#93 10.08.2014 23:43:08

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 244

Re: LT33 ruleset

Is there a concise list of the rules we are playing this by somewhere?

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#94 11.08.2014 15:13:18

Nimrod
Player
From: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 58

Re: LT33 ruleset

Corbeau wrote:

Is there a concise list of the rules we are playing this by somewhere?

Yes and no. It's mostly based on Civ2civ3 ruleset, with some changes:

1) Vision and movement 3x
2) Restrictinfra is OFF

You can verify the changes yourself by going to GitHub. Here's a handy list of commit changes:

https://github.com/longturn/games/commi … /data/LT33


========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

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