#1 11.01.2015 23:01:57

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

At least should be all.

Here you have the winning conditions and listed all the rule changes. This is not a very nice list to look at but the best I can do now.

Before the  game starts I will make a better looking list in comparison to last few games and make a short list of things to notice about LT34 ruleset.

Unfortunately today there was no time to have a better list of changes just now. If there was some errors those will be corrected once the game starts. The other possibility for changes is the test game. If some issues are found, that might result with changes.


Winning

For every 7 players there will be one more winner.
With 29-41 players we would have 5 winners.
With 42-48 players we would have 6 winners.
With 49-55 players we would have 7 winners
With 56-62 players we would have 8 winners
With 63-69 players we would have 9 winners
etc
We are also now limiting the number of those players who didn’t win the game. The game can’t end with any winners if if not ended with a space race and there are more than the max number of winner + max number of remaining players left.

However we can have have max 3 survivors if there is one winner less in the winning team. With this I mean that for example in a game where there would be 60 players, there could be


- max 8 winners and max 1 player left alive
- or max 7 winners and max 3 players left alive

It’s also possible to have less winners than the max number but in this case the max number of alive players will remain the same. For example with 60 players there could be 2 winners and 8 remaining players or 5 winners and 5 remaining players.

If the game is won without space race victory, a winning post must be made on the forum by one of the winners. The post must include who won and that a victory is claimed. The winners need to be allied in the end and the possible remaining alive players who are not in the winning alliance will need to make a post and accept the defeat. This is done with a reply to the winning post on the forum. The message will need to contain the following on the first line of the message: “I accept defeat on LT34 and will not claim victory.” The message may contain more lines. If all the remaining alive players who were not included in the winning post did not accept defeat, the game will continue.

If the game ends with a space race victory, there will be only one winner and everyone else remaining will become those who didn’t win. This means that any alliance bigger than 1 player can’t claim the victory.  The winner of the space race victory must make the winning post in one week

The game can end with a tie if all players have either accepted defeat or they agree to give up. If the game can’t be continued because of some technical reason for 90 days, it will be a tie.


The server settings explained (these are the latest ones and are valid if there is a conflict)

No barbarians
Islands map
40% of the map is land
There are no pole areas
the map has about 400 tiles / player and not all of those are on the starting island
The map is wrapped from x and y

The minimum distance between cities is 5 (needs 4 tiles between the cities, in any direction)
There is no rapture growth
restrict infra is enabled = all roads on enemy territory will be treated as there were no roads
Revolution will always take 2 turns
Space race is enabled and only the space race winner will win the game. The allies are not included
The start units: 4 settlers, 2 workers and one explorer
An unreachable unit does not protect the rest (hard to explain but: airplane on the same tile with land units doesn't prevent the land units from being attacked)
Unhomed units are not killed
The tech trading is not allowed
You can not steal techs
You can not get techs by conquering
An airport can receive an unlimited number of units but send only one
City improvements have a 10% chance of being destroyed if the city is captured

The diplomats have a 40% base chance of succeeding
25% of the gold given by one player to another will be lost on the way
Diplomacy is allowed between human players only. if an AI player is born there is no diplomacy.
Science is 20% cheaper compared to a standard game
Trade routes are completely disabled, you can use caravans pretty much only to build wonders and small wonders

There are no AI units in the beginning but if someone faces a civil war, one will be born
The turns are 23 hours
The unitwaittime is 10 hours meaning that if you moved 5 hours before the turn change you can move that particular unit again only 5 hours after the turn change



Changes since LT33 #1

World wonders

A.Smith's Trading co. will cost 700 instead of 300
Darwin's voyage will cost 1500 instead of 300
Great library will cost 400 instead of 600
Isaac Newton's college will cost 600 instead of 800
Manhattan Project will cost 1500 instead of 6000

Small wonders

Copernicus costing 100 instead of 300
Mausoleum of Mausolos costing 180 instead of 300 and obsoleted by combustion instead of explosives
Statue of Zeus costing 150 instead of 250
Pyramids costing 100 instead of 200
Colossus will cost 80 instead of 200
Hanging gardens will cost 90 instead of 300
J.S. Bach's Cathedral will cost 300 instead of 600
Marco Polo will cost 800 instead of 1000
Temple of Artemis will cost 90 instead of 200


City improvements

Coastal defense costing 40 instead of 60
Mfg. Plant costing 180 instead of 220
Port facilities will become available with electricity
SDI defense will cost 240 instead of 140
University will cost 100 instead of 120
City walls now have an upkeep of 1 and also prevent losing population if a land unit kills a defening unit
The city improvements now have a 10% probability of being destroyed if the city is conquered. This used to be 20%.
Units

Elephants will cost 25 to build instead of 30
Crusaders will cost 30 to build instead of 40
Cannons will have the same 100% bonus against cities as there is with artillery and howizers
Fighter will cost 50 instead of 60
Bomber will cost 90 instead of 100
Trireme will cost 30 instead of 40
Frigates will cost 50 instead of 60
Destroyers will cost 70 instead of 80
Battleship will have a defense of 18 and attack of 18
Submarines will have a defense of 4 instead of 5
Carriers will have a defense of 18 instead of 9
Cruise missiles will have a move rate of 9 instead of 18 and they will cost 40 instead of 50
Spies will have an upkeep of 1 (gold/shield) but no upkeep for diplomats
The base chance for diplos and spies to succeed is now 40% instead of 50%
Restrictinfra is enabled meaning that you can't use roads on enemy territory
Using the allied airports is allowed and the receiving end can receive an unlimited number of units

Space race
Space component will cost 1600 instead of 160
Space module will cost 3200 instead of 320
Space structural will cost 1000 instead of 100

Scientific

; 2 - Technology cost is reduced depending on the number of all players
;     (human, AI and barbarians) which already know the tech.
Tech trading is disabled by setting the receiver to always lose the transferred tech
tech trading is disabled
Not sure if this is enough in order to prevent all player2player transfer of techs. Still investigating.

Set #2

-Changed tech cost to 80% (EDIT 1, was 70%, tested too cheap in 1st test game)
-Restored the original terraforming and terrain alteration options for the workers
-Catapults, cannons, artilleries and howizers are no longer capturable. This had very little effect on LT33 anyway.
-Catapult has an attack value of 5 and is now a citybuster just like any other siege unit. They will get 100% boost when attacking cities
-The siege units can't be built as veterans. This is how it was in LT33 but no change here.
-Islands map: Landmass=30, tilesperplayer=400 but still not as I would like to have it


#set  3#

Pre-forts no longer change the ownership of the tile
City walls. Help updated about not losing population when a defending unit dies.
Fixed space structural bribe back to 100 and changed the cost of this to 800 (from 80)
Fixed cruise missiles: moves now 9 instead of 18
Fixed the help for Michelangelo's Chapel
Modified graphics for academy, migrants,aque/river+aque/lake, zeus, artemis, internet, tribalism, federation,pre-firt (stuff specific gfx and moved the default as an alt one)
Added magellans: Changed cost from 400 to 800.
Added lighthouse, changed the cost from 200 to 100.
Changed the cost of Shakespere's Theatre from 600 to 300
Changed the defense value of a cruiser from 6 to 8 and the attack value from 6 to 4. Help updated: The Cruiser is a strong defensive boat unit
The big siege units (from catapults to howizers) can now move without roads on desert, grassland, hills, plains, and tundra


Set  #4

- terraforming ocean to land will cost 24 instead of 36
- landmass 40, tiles for each player 400,

Here you have the changes we had for LT33 in comparison to LT32

Changes to the previous games/LT32:
- Restrictinfra is OFF meaning that you can use roads on the enemy territory
- Production and trade improvements (markets, banks, factories, etc) giving +50% bonus instead of just 25%
- No changes to libararies, universities etc. They still give you only 25% and those were not changed like production and trade improvements
- Tech trading enabled (should be enabled already) No losing tech while trading / stealing unless going to negative bulbs
- 25% cost for trading tech: Getting a free tech without enough bulbs to cover that 25% cost would result with a loss of a random tech
- 25% cost for trading gold meaning that you can send gold to another player but 25% of that will be lost
- Tired attack is ON. Meaning that if you have 2/3 moves left when attacking you get only 2/3 of the attack power your unit normally has
- You can do terraforming with Engineers (explosives) meaning that you can turn ocean into land, the other way around or make several other changes to the terrain with the engineers
- City trading is OFF
- You can capture workers, settlers and migrant. If the help says that the current unit can capture a capturable unit, you will gain the control of the capturable unit instead of destroying it
- cruise missiles have 18 moves instead if 36 but only 9 before the invention of advanced flight
- Building fanatics no longer takes population. Fanatics is a reasonably powerful unit that can be only built by a fundamental nation
- workers gain experience at a considerably slower rate: veteran_work_raise_chance = 8, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 0 meaning that a green one has 8% change of getting a promotion, a v worker has a 5% chance and so on
- there is *no* rapture growth, only increased trade from celebrating cities
- no veteran siege units (cannons etc) even with barracks and they can’t move anywhere without roads

The Wonders added to LT33

Small wonder: "A.Smith's Trading Co." with cost of 300
City improvements which would normally have an upkeep of 1 are free of upkeep, for all your cities on the same continent
Small wonder: "Leonardo's Workshop" with cost of 300
Upgrades two obsolete units per game turn
Small wonder: "Marco Polo's Embassy" with cost of 1000
Increases trade output by 40% in all cities on the same continent.
Small wonder: "Michelangelo's Chapel" with cost of 800
Counts as having a Cathedral in each of your cities on the same  continent. This makes 3 unhappy citizens content in each city; however, it does not affect citizens made unhappy by military activity. The discovery of Theology increases the effect of a Cathedral, making an additional unhappy citizen content. The discovery of Communism lessens the effect of a Cathedral, reducing by one  the number of unhappy citizens made content.

The changes from LT31 to 32 are not listed in one place

Some I remember: LT32 was a team game and no tech trading between teams. I guess there were only minor changes. It was possible to steal techs and lose them (for both sides!) in the process


LT31 was the first game to use Civ2Cov3 ruleset.

Changes: 3x movement, minimum distance for cities 5 and tech trading allowed but high chance for both receiving and giving parties to lose the techs. Some additional ones like the wonders but there is no complete list of those.

Here is the version of the Cic2Civ3 ruleset used for creating LT31


GOVERNMENTS:
------------
                  Anarch    Tribal    Despot    Monarc    Fundam    Republ    Democr    Federat   Commun   
Tax/Lux/Cie Rate  0         60        60        70        70        80        90        90        80       
Output per tile   -1(if>2)# -1(if>2)# -1(if>2)# 0         0         +1Trade   +1Trade   0         0       
Celebration Bonus (no -1)   (no -1)   (no -1)  (+1Trade)  0        (+1Trade) (+1Trade) (+1Trade)  0       
                                                                                       
Unit Upkeep       Shield    Shield    Gold      Gold      Gold      Sh+Gd     Gold      Gold      Shield   
Free Units        2\4       2\4       2\4       3\6       2\2       1\2      (1\2)      1\2       3\3     
Gold Upkeep       0         0         x1        x1        x2        x1        x2        x2        0       
Shield Upkeep     x1        x1        0         0         0         x1        0         0         x1       
Mil Unhappiness   0         0         0         -1        -1        -1        -2        -1        -1       
Martial Law       +1        0         +1        +1(Max3)  0         0         0         0         +2(Max3)
                                                                                       
Civil war %       99        90        80        70        60        40        30        20        50       
Empire Size       0         /7        /5        /10       /6        /8        /16       /12       /14     
Special           +NoUpkeep +1 Move   +75%Gold  +50%Gold  +Tithes   +Bribe   +Brib/Sub  +Subvert  +NoUpkeep
                  -50%Lux  (Land/Mil) (Palace)  (Palace)  -50%Sci   -Revolt  -Rev/Sen   -Senate   (Cost=1)
                  -NoTaxes                                Fanatic             Partisan            Partisan
                                                                                       
Base Corruption   0%        30%       20%       10%       15%       25%       5%        0%        30%     
Corrup by Dist    1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        0*        0       
Base Waste        30%       0%        10%       20%       15%       5%        25%       30%       0%       
Waste by Dist     1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       0**       0 
Main changes:
- Republic: Reduced Base Waste and increased Base Corruption. Else it was too hard to build units, and it was too similar to democracy.
- Monarchy: Reduced Base Corruption and increased Base Waste. Else it was too hard to research, and it was too similar to despotism.
- Communism : Number of free supported units fixed to 3 per city
- Fundamentalism: Number of free supported units fixed to 2 per city
bardo wrote:
civ2-3 ruleset has been renamed as civ2civ3 upstream,
but due to limitations of freeciv-modpack we cannot
change name of what we provide for freeciv-2.3, so I have
renamed files back to civ2-3. Below is original Readme
by Bardo.
- Marko Lindqvist, aka Cazfi
==========================================================

==========================================================
Civ2Civ3 Ruleset v1.2 for Freeciv v2.3 (Updated 2012/3/28)
==========================================================
by David Fernandez, aka Bardo

OBJECTIVES:
-----------
- The main purpose is to get a gameplay more similar to civ3, keeping the combat system from civ2.
- Reduced micromanagement as much as possible. Don't be afraid by the amount of changes, I think this ruleset is easier to learn than default rules, and it is designed so there is not a big disadvantage when you do not play optimally. I hope both rookies and experienced players can enjoy it.
- Removed the rules that allowed a sudden boost: mainly Rapture growth, national Trade routes, and the big bonuses from Republic and Democracy.
The result should be a simpler and more linear development of your cities and a slower paced gameplay. With governments that keep a similar balance along the different ages, and smoother effects of terrains, units, buildings and wonders.
- All the new rules have been adapted so AI can play with them, and to avoid possible exploits by human players.
- It uses most of the optional rules and new features included in the official Experimental ruleset, and I try to give feedback about them to the developers.
I wish to keep it updated and to improve it with the comments from the players.

INFO:
-----
- Help Texts have been updated (mainly Buildings and Wonders), so the info showed ingame already takes into account the changed rules. Note that some graphical tables from the Manual will not match (mainly Terrains and Governments), so better use the tables in this ReadMe as reference.
- I suggest New players to start a game with 12 players or so, AI skill level Normal, and default ruleset options (Small continental map with 100 land tiles per player). This way AI will progress at similar pace than real history.
- Cheating AI level was adjusted for these rules, I suggest Experienced players to use it.
CHEATING AI: +40% Science, Luxury, Gold and Shield production, -20% pollution, +20 AI love
The following is a full list of changes compared to default ruleset...

CORE CHANGES:
-------------
- No Rapture Grow (celebration only causes additional trade per tile, same than civ3). Foodbox readjusted to keep a constant city growth.
- Rebalanced Trade Routes: halved the revenues, caravans and freights can only travel on roads/rivers.
- Unit upkeep changed from Shields to Gold under some governments (similar to civ3).
- Specialists output reduced to 2 (same that civ2). There are wonders that increase them to 3 for all players.
- The cost of each Tech is equal to the number of Steps needed to get the tech (Tech Cost = Base Cost * Number of Parents). It is a linear formula more similar to civ2, and it fits better with the new reduced bonuses from Trade and Science.
- Techs are cheaper if already discovered by other nations you have embassy with: tech_leakage = 1
- Added +10 to AI_love for AI players, to reduce the amount of wars.
OPTIONAL RULES:
- Every player starts with 1 free tech, 1 settler, 1 worker and 1 explorer.
- Min distance between cities = 3.
If you like smallpox, I suggest to disable this option and to enable the citizen migration (server setting in sociological tab).
- Initial national border equal to city radius: radius_sq_city = 5 (2 tiles)
- Disabled national trade routes: trademindist = 999.
- Enabled risk of plague at cities with pop greater than 4. Chances reduced by the buildings Aqueduct and Sewer System, the tech Medicine, and the wonder Cure for Cancer:
illness_on = 1, illness_min_size = 5, illness_base_factor = 10
- Road/Railroads can't be used in enemy territory. Unreachable units do not protect reachable ones.

FOODBOX:
--------
- City FoodBox Size uniformed to even the population wasted when you build settlers at larger cities (similar to civ3):
granary_food_ini = 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 30, 30, 40
granary_food_inc = 0
- Granary size is fixed to 10 food for every city size.
Cities with Pop <= 4 receives this granary effect for free, so they can create settlers at best rate even without granary. (This free granary helps the AI to build settlers optimally).
CITY   FOODBOX   SETTLER    FOODBOX   SETTLER
SIZE    NEW       NEW        OLD       OLD
1      20        -          20        -
2      20(10)#   -          30(15)    20(5-15)
3      20(10)#   20(20)     40(20)    30(10-20)
4      20(10)#   20(20)     50(25)    40(15-25)
5      20(10)    30(20)     60(30)    50(20-30)
6      30(10)    40(20)     70(35)    60(25-35)
7      30(10)    50(30)     80(40)    70(30-40)
8      40(10)    60(40)     90(45)    80(35-45)
9      40(10)    70(50)     100(50)   90(40-50)
10     40(10)    80(60)     110(55)   100(45-55)
11     40(10)    80(60)     120(60)   110(50-60)
12     40(10)    80(60)     130(65)   120(55-65)
13     40(10)    80(60)     140(70)   130(60-70)
14     40(10)    80(60)     150(75)   140(65-75)
15     ...       ...        ...       ...
# Granary effect for free when city grows to this city level.
FOODBOX = Foodbox size at that city level. (In brackets = Granary size).
SETTLER = Food needed to recover the population if you create a settler at that city size. (In brackets = The same but with granary).
NEW = This Ruleset. OLD = Default ruleset
TIP: In order to keep max growth, you should build the Granary before city grows larger than Pop 4 (same that Aqueduct at Pop 8, and Sewer System at Pop 16).
TIP: Optimal production of settlers occurs at any city with Pop <= 4, or cities with granary and Pop <= 6.

TERRAIN:
--------
- Jungles receive +1 shield (1/1/0). Swamps can be irrigated for +1 food (to 2/0/0). Tundra can be mined for +1 shield (instead of irrigated) and roads gives +1 trade (up to 1/1/1).
- Deserts with a river receive 1 extra food from irrigation (to boost growth at terrains like Nile flood).
- Reduced food bonus by 1 to some Special resources: Oasis and Spice.
- Hills receive 1 shield for free, and +2 from mines, same than civ3, (was 0 and +3).
- Mountains give extra vision range. Cities can not be placed over Mountains. Land units starting the turn over a Mountain receive a -1 penalty to movement (this way it is not so good for cavalry to end the turn on mountains).
- Lake tiles receive for free +1 food (2/0/2), while Harbours and Offshore Platforms do not affect them. Lakes do not enable wonders that needs a coastal city.
- Deep oceans produce no food (1 food with Harbour). Offshore Platforms increase the production only if there is a buoy in the deep ocean tile.
- Jungles and Forests are not affected by Pollution nor by Global warming.
- Minimum city output = 1/0/0 (was 1/1/0). City central tile now produces +1 shield except at terrains that can be irrigated and mined at same time (to workaround this hardcoded effect).
As resultant, city central tile always increases by 1 the output of the original tile, once irrigated/mined/roaded (Compare CITY and MAX1 in next table).
So, no matter the tile where you place your city, you never waste any resource (for example, with default rules a city placed over bonused grassland was wasting the shield bonus).
TILE      F/P/T  IRRIG(t)   MINE(t)    ROAD  *CITY   MAX1   MAX2
Deep     *0/0/2  NO         NO         NO            1/0/2  1/1/2
Ocean     1/0/2  NO         NO         NO            2/0/2  2/1/2
Lake     *2/0/2  NO         NO         NO            2/0/2  2/0/2
Swamp     1/0/0 *+1(10)    *NO         +0(4)  2/1/0  2/0/0  3/0/0
Glacier   0/0/0  NO         +1(10)     +0(4)         0/1/0  0/1/0
Tundra    1/0/0 *NO        *+1(5)     *+1(2)  1/2!1  1/1/1  1/1/1
Desert    0/1/0  +1(5)      +1(5)      +1(2)  1/2!1  0/2/1  0/3/1
Plains    1/1/0  +1(5)      Forest(15) +1(2)  2/2/1  2/1/1  3/1/1
Grassland 2/0/0  +1(5)      Forest(15) +1(2)  3/1/1  3/0/1  4/0/1
Jungle   *1/1/0 *Swamp(5)  *NO         +0(4)  1/2/0  1/1/0  1/1/0
Forest    1/2/0  Plain(10) *NO         +0(4)  1/3/0  1/2/0  1/3/0
Hills    *1/1/0  +1(10)    *+2(10)     +0(4)  2/3!0  1/3/0  1/4/0
Mountains 0/1/0  NO         +1(10)     +0(6)         0/2/0  0/3/0
CITY = central city tile; MAX1 = irrigated/mined/roaded/harbour; MAX2 = farmland/railroad/offshore.
! = You have to mine this city tile to get max output (Tundra, Desert, Hill).
* = Changes compared to default ruleset. Most affected are Jungles, Swamps and Tundras.
TIP: The optimal tiles to place your initial cities are those with bonus resources or rivers, and MAX output equal or greater than 2/1/1. Plains are always good places for cities, as well as Flood Desert (desert with river), or Grassland (better with resource and/or river). Hills allow good defensive cities too (once mined).

DEFENSE:
--------
- Halved the terrain defense bonuses, now more similar to civ3 values:
TERRAIN           NEW    OLD
Forest           +25%   +50%
Jungles          +25%   +50%
Swamp            +25%   +50%
Hills            +50%   +100%
Mountains        +100%  +200%

RIVER            +25%   +50%
FORTRESS         +100%  +100%
- Every City receives an inherent Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units
- Every City with Pop>=8 receives an additional free Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units, and against Sea/Trireme.
- Walls effect reduced from 200% to 100%, and cost reduced from 60 to 30.
- Great Wall gives additional Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units, and the effect Unit_No_Lose_Pop in every city.
The total city defense is similar to default ruleset, but here cities receive some wall bonus for free, and large cities receive an extra bonus, like in civ3:
LAND             BASE   (+WALL)  (+GREAT WALL)
Town (Pop<8)     +50%    +150%(-) +200%(=)
City (Pop>=8)    +100%   +200%(=) +250%(+)

SEA/TRIREME      BASE   (+COASTAL DEFENSE)
Town (Pop<8)     +0%     +100%(=)
City (Pop>=8)    +50%    +150%(+)
GOVERNMENTS:
------------
                  Anarch    Tribal    Despot    Monarc    Fundam    Republ    Democr    Federat   Commun   
Tax/Lux/Cie Rate  0         60        60        70        70        80        90        90        80       
Output per tile   -1(if>2)# -1(if>2)# -1(if>2)# 0         0         +1Trade   +1Trade   0         0       
Celebration Bonus (no -1)   (no -1)   (no -1)  (+1Trade)  0        (+1Trade) (+1Trade) (+1Trade)  0       
                                                                                       
Unit Upkeep       Shield    Shield    Gold      Gold      Gold      Sh+Gd     Gold      Gold      Shield   
Free Units        2\4       2\4       2\4       3\6       1\2      (1\2)     (1\2)      1\2       3\6     
Gold Upkeep       0         0         x1        x1        x2        x1        x2        x2        0       
Shield Upkeep     x1        x1        0         0         0         x1        0         0         x1       
Mil Unhappiness   0         0         0         -1        -1        -1        -2        -1        -1       
Martial Law       +1        0         +1        +1(Max3)  0         0         0         0         +2(Max3)
                                                                                       
Civil war %       99        90        80        70        60        40        30        20        50       
Empire Size       0         /7        /5        /10       /6        /8        /16       /12       /14     
Special           +NoUpkeep +1 Move   +75%Gold  +50%Gold  +Tithes   +Bribe   +Brib/Sub +Subvert  +NoUpkeep
                  -50%Lux  (Land/Mil) (Palace)  (Palace)  -50%Sci   -Revolt  -Rev/Sen  -Senate   (Cost=1)
                  -NoTaxes                                Fanatic            Partisan            Partisan
                                                                                       
Base Corruption   0%        30%       25%       20%       15%       10%       5%        0%        30%     
Corrup by Dist    1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        0*        0       
Base Waste        30%       0%        5%        10%       15%       20%       25%       30%       0%       
Waste by Dist     1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       0**       0       
* Corruption by Distance is increased by 1 until The Corporation is researched by the player.
** Waste by Distance is increased by 1 until Trade is researched by the player.
# This penalty is negated by The Pyramids wonder, and the penalty dissapears for everybody when The Pyramids become obsolete.
+ Partisans appear in conquered cities (democratic or communist) if Guerrilla Warfare has been researched by any player.
- Added Fundamentalism (available with Theology), Tribal (available at start) and Federation (available with Democracy).
- "Base Corruption/Waste": Modern governments cause less Trade Corruption, but more Wasted Production. The total % lost (Waste + Corruption) is equal for all governments.
- "Unit Upkeep": Tribal and Communism use the standard unit upkeep by Shields, while the other governments use Gold upkeep (x2 gold per unit for modern governments). Republic uses both gold and shield upkeep.
If a city supports more units with gold upkeep than its population size, each extra unit will waste one food. If the population shrinks due to starvation, one of those extra units will be disbanded.
- "Empire Size": Modern governments have double size limit than his ancient counterpart, to minimize this non linear effect. Empire Base Size is equal to Empire Step Size for every government.
- The bonus "+1 Trade" under Republic and Democracy does not affect oceanic tiles. This way, oceanic tiles are more even to land tiles under any government.
- Republic receives Revolution_When_Unhappy and Unbribable_Units, Federation receives Has_senate and No_Incite (Democracy receives all them).
- Under Tribal government, every military land unit gains an additional movement point. They are tribal warriors, maintained with Shields instead of Gold.
- Under Communism you do not pay upkeep for buildings that cost 1 Gold. Communism cancels the bonus from Mysticism and Theology (to Temples and Cathedrals).
- Under Fundamentalism you receive extra Gold from Tithes, but -50% to Science.
- The Bonus to production at Palace (under Despotism and Monarchy) switched from Shields to Gold.
- Most governments are affected by military unhappiness due to units out of national borders (same than Republic in default ruleset).
- "Free Units" means units free of gold/shield upkeep and also free of military unhappiness. By default 2 free units per city (upkeep and unhappiness), and 2 additional free units at cities with Pop >= 8. Republic and Democracy do not receive units free of gold upkeep, just 1 unit free of mil unhappiness per city (2 if Pop >= 8 ).
TIP: If a city is not paying any unit upkeep (showed in city panel), it can not suffer military unhappiness.
TIP: There is some hurry to get Monarchy or Republic (or to build Pyramids), in order to avoid the initial penalty to output per tile. However, the Corruption and Waste are evened for all governments, so there are no big differences, and every government could be used at any technological age. The choice depends on the role of your civilization.

TECHS:
------
- Added new wonders: Mausoleum of Mausolos (available with Ceremonial Burial), and Statue of Zeus (available with Polytheism). Oracle of Delphi renamed to Temple of Artemis (in order to allow all 7 wonders).
- Moved Great Wall to Construction (was Masonry). Moved King Richard's Crusade to Chivalry, so it requires Monarchy and Knights. Women Suffrage moved to Conscription, so it requires Democracy. Switched Darwin's Voyage and Eiffel Tower (Darwin was earlier than Eiffel). Shakespeare's Theatre available with Sanitation (was Medicine).
- Diplomats available with Alphabet (was Writing), and Migrants with Pottery, so every initial tech allows some unit or building.
- Coastal defense moved to Magnetism*. AI loves defense improvements and this change encourages them to develop frigates/galleons early in game.
Now AI aims to Monarchy or Republic, then to Magnetism* or Gunpowder with similar chances.
(*) The labels and icons for "Magnetism" and "Navigation" were switched, because compass was already used by historical caravels, while sextants were not invented until the age of galleons/frigates.
- Bridge Building merged to old Engineering in the tech tree. Added modern "Engineering" in the Industrial Ages that allows Destroyers (was Electricity) and Transports (was Industrialization), and it is required for Steel (Cruiser), Amphibious Warfare (Ports), and Combustion (Submarines).
- Battleship available with Mass Production instead of Automobile. Mfg Plant available with Plastics (was Robotics).
- Nuclear Fission requires Refrigeration, in order to delay the Atomic age, and to force the AI to research farms. Communism requires Theology (Fundamentalism) instead of Philosophy, to encourage AI to research all governments.
- Fusion Power enables new unit, Geoengineers, to perform terrain transformations, that were simplified so there is no need to chain more than one transformation in the same terrain.
Special effects:
- Astronomy: Increases units vision when in fortresses.
- Invention: Halves upgrade cost of your units.
- Medicine: Reduces by 30% the chance of illness in your cities.
- Electricity: Increases city vision radius, and the effect of Colosseums.
- Trade: Decreases one-time the corruption of trade caused by distance to capital.
- The Corporation: Decreases one-time the corruption of trade caused by distance to capital.
The Techs, Buildings, Wonders and Units are the same than civ2, but some requirements have been changed to improve a bit the historical accuracy, to encourage the use of every military unit, and to avoid units or wonders becoming obsolete too soon. The following is a list of some inaccuracies from default tech tree that were addressed in the new tree:
- Pikemen were available without Phalanxs; Musketeers without Pikemen; Ironclads without Frigates; Destroyers without Ironclads; Armors without Artillery; Mech Infantry without Barracks III.
- Cathedrals did not require Construction nor Masonry. Ironclads and Eiffel Tower were available without Iron Working. Chivalry and Pikemen did not need Iron nor Bronze.
- Pottery was not needed to research Trade, Economics, Explosives, Invention, or Sanitation.
- Chemistry was not related to Athomic theory, Refrigeration, Gunpowder, Steam engine, or Steel.
- Theory of Gravity did not need Physics, Invention, or even The Wheel, and it was not needed for Automobile, Robotics, or Miniaturization.
- Offshore Platforms did not require Refining, Combustion or Explosives. Miniaturization was not needed for Rocketry or Laser.
In the new tree, you are forced to research most of the ancient techs before you can research the modern ones, but overall, researching paths are similar to default tree.

BUILDINGS:
----------
- Courthouse: Make_Content = 1, and reduce to half any kind of waste (trade, shields or food).
Added new effect: food wasted by distance to Palace = -1% food each 2 tiles.
For example, cities at distance 20 of the Palace lose -10% food (-5% with courthouse), so they lose -1 food when their production reaches 10 food per turn (20 food per turn with courthouse), noticeable when city reaches size 5 or so (around city size 10 with courthouse).
- Police Station: Make_Content = 2, and reduces unhappiness caused by 1 military unit.
- Colosseum upkeep reduced from 4 to 3 (and renamed to Amphitheatre). University from 3 to 2.
- Science bonus by buildings (Library, University and Research Lab) restored to civ2 values (50%). There are wonders that double the effect later.
- Production bonus by Factory and Mfg Plant reduced to +25% each (was +50%), so the Power Plants are as important as the Factories. Upkeep reduced by one gold, too. Mfg Plants allows the construction of 2 items per turn.
- Super Highways give +50% to Gold/Luxuries, and they produce extra trade at tiles with roads but without farmlands (the default effect was overpowered under democracy/republic).
- Pollution caused by population is increased by buildings instead of by techs (else the AI seems to avoid those techs with negative effects):
Industrialization->Factory; Automobile->Highways; Plastics->Mfg Plant; Mass Production->Offshore platforms.
- Aqueduct is cheaper near rivers or lakes. Sewer System is needed to grow larger than pop 16 (instead of 12). Each one reduces the chances of illness by -30%.
- Space Components and Modules require a Research Lab and Mfg Plant present in the city.
- Adjusted the Pollution of all Power Plants, and increased building cost of Nuclear Plants:
               Cost  Upkeep   Shields     Pollution(+Recycle)
Power plant    130   4       +50%/+100%   100%(50%)
Hydro plant    180   4       +50%/+100%   50% (25%)
(+Hoover Dam)  (=)  (=)         (=)       25% (0%)
Nuclear plant  240   2       +50%/+100%   50% (25%)
Solar plant    320   4       +50%/+100%   25% (0%)
UNITS:
------
- Settlers pop cost increased to 2 and removed food upkeep. New unit Migrants available to work, or to migrate 1 pop, they can't create cities and can be captured. Costs more similar to civ3:
Settlers:  pop_cost = 2, cost = 30, upkeep = 1
Migrants:  pop_cost = 1, cost = 10, upkeep = 1
Workers:   pop_cost = 0, cost = 20, upkeep = 1
- Non-military units now belongs to a new unit class that can not pillage, nor capture cities.
- Created a new unit class for Caravans and Freights that can only travel on roads, railroads, rivers or ships. They can only establish trade routes to foreign cities. And they can be captured.
- Wheeled units can't move to mountains, jungles and swamps, unless they are traveling on a road (Using "Big land" from Experimental ruleset). Those units can't pillage nor capture cities. They need Galleons or Transports to travel by sea.
- Pikemen defense increased to 3, the cost to 30, and removed the double attack vs horses. Else, I think the bonus vs horses make obsolete the chivalry period before it starts.
- Archers ignore Zone of Control, so they are useful to escort Legions or even medieval units. Archers set as default barbarian units.
- Added Elephants from civ2, available with Polytheism: (at/def/mov-hp,cost) = (2/2/2-10,30). Obsolete by Knights.
- Added Crusaders from civ2, available with Monotheism: (5/1/2-10,40). Obsolete by Dragoons.
- Added Fanatics from civ2, available with Guerrilla, under Fundamentalism government: (5/5/1-20,20). They cost 1 population, but do not cause unhappiness and do not need upkeep.
- Infantry units can capture enemy Migrants (as slaves) and Caravans/Freights (as loot).
- Alpine Troops changed to (7/4/1) and Partisan to (4/5/1), so Riflemen do not become obsolete as city defenders until Guerrilla or Marine are researched, and all modern infantry are somehow useful.
- Given Marine ability to Legion, Musketeer, and Rifleman. This way, one-tile islands can be assaulted early in game. Yet, the Marine unit is still the best offensive/defensive infantry.
- Trireme can't navegate rivers. Caravel can not attack to land. Removed transport capability from Frigates, to force the use of Galleons.
- Ironclad hit points reduced from 30 to 20 (same attack than Frigates and still much better defense). Battleship hit points reduced to 30 (was 40), and Submarines to 20 with defense 5 (was 30 with defense 2). Doubled the defense of Destroyers against Submarines. Now there is a Rock-paper-scissors relation between Destroyer-Cruiser-Submarine.
- All units that had Firepower 2 now have Firepower 1, in order to even the power of naval, air, and artillery units, and to simplify the mental calculation to compare them.
- Artillery and Howitzer receive the ability CityBuster, so their firepower is 1 in open field, and 2 against cities. Removed Ignore Walls for Howitzer (that would bypass the new city defense bonuses).
- Bombers and Helicopters receive the Bombarder ability, so they can damage land units, but they can not kill them, and can not be damaged while attacking. Note they still can kill or die against naval units.
Halved the attack so it is harder to bombard land enemies successfully. Increased hit points so it is still possible to kill naval units.
- Helicopters can carry 1 infantry unit, do not cause unhappiness inside national borders, and Fighters do not gain extra attack against them.
- Fighter defense increased to 4 and Stealth Fighter to 7, so they can be useful to protect bombers.
- Nuclear weapons can be built with Nuclear Fission, but you need Advanced Flight to move them, and Rocketry to get max movement.
UNIT            Att  Def  Mov  FP   HP   Cost   
Warrior         1    1    1    1    10   10
Phalanx         1    2    1    1    10   20
Archers         3    2    1    1    10   30  *IgZOC
Swordsmen       4    2    1    1    10   40  *Marines
Pikemen         1   *3    1    1    10  *30  *(No bonus anti-horse)
Musketeers      3    3    1    1    20  *40  *Marines
Riflemen        5    4    1    1    20  *50  *Marines
Alpine Troops  *7   *4    1    1    20  *60   IgTer
Partisan        4   *5    1    1    20  *60   IgTer, IgZOC
Fanatics       *5   *5    1    1    20   20  *1 Pop, No upkeep
Marines         8    5    1    1    20   60   Marines
Paratroopers    6    4    1    1    20   60   Paratroopers
                         
Horsemen        2    1    2    1    10   20
Chariot         3    1    2    1    10   30
Elephants       2    2    2    1    10   30
Crusaders       5    1    2    1    10   40
Knights         4    2    2    1    10   40
Dragoons        5    2    2    1    20   50
Cavalry         8    3    2    1    20   60
Mech. Inf.      6    6    3    1    30  *70  *Wheeled
Armor           10   5    3    1    30   80  *Wheeled
                         
Catapult        6    1    1    1    10   40  *Wheeled
Cannon          8    1    1    1    20  *50  *Wheeled
Artillery       10  *2    1   *1(2) 20  *60  *Wheeled,*CityBuster
Howitzer        12   2    2   *1(2) 30   70  *Wheeled,*CityBuster
                         
Trireme         1    1    3    1    10   40   Cargo 2, Coastal
Caravel         2    1    3    1    10  *50   Cargo 3
Galleon         0    2    4    1    20  *50   Cargo 4
Transport       0    3    5    1    30  *60   Cargo 8
Carrier        *0    9    5   *1    40   160  Cargo 8
                         
Frigate         4    2    4    1    20  *60  *No Cargo
Ironclad        4    4    4    1   *20  *70 
Destroyer       4    4    6    1    30  *80  *(x2 def anti-submarine)
Cruiser         6    6    5   *1    30  *90 
AEGIS Cruiser   8    8    5   *1    30  *100 *(x5 def anti-missile)
Battleship      12   12   4   *1   *30   160
Submarine       12  *5    5   *1   *20  *70   Cargo 8, Invis
                         
Fighter         4   *4    10  *1    20   60   Fighter
Bomber         *6    1    8   *1   *30  *100 *Bombard 2, FieldUnit
Helicopter     *5   *2    6   *1   *30  *70  *Bombard 1,*Cargo 1
Stealth Fighter 8   *7    14  *1    20   80   Fighter, Invis
Stealth Bomber *9    3    12  *1   *30  *120 *Bombard 3, FieldUnit, Invis
                         
Cruise Missile  18   0    12  *1(2) 10  *50  *CityBuster, FieldUnit
Nuclear         99   0    16   1    10   160  Nuclear, FieldUnit
FP = Firepower, HP = Hit Points
* = Changes compared to default ruleset. Most affected are modern infantry, air units, and all units that had 2 firepower.

WONDERS:
--------
Readjusted effects for most wonders. Restored all civ2 costs.
- Modified every wonder effects that worked as if you'd have certain buildings in every city.
- Replaced every effect Make_Happy, Force_content, and No_unhappy, by additional luxury in the central city tile. Else they would allow a possible exploit to avoid unhappiness caused by military units.
- Replaced effect that gives a percentage bonus to science output, by additional science in the central city tile. This way, they do not multiply the effect of other wonders like Colossus, and it is not an advantage to build them all in the same city.
- Some Wonders require certain building in the city to be built.
FULL LIST OF WONDERS
(#) = Global effect, "Name", Cost, Obsolete, Effect
- "Pyramids" 200, Obsolete by Railroad (that increases even more the shield production):
+1 Shield per worked tile in the city (already producing shields). Disables tile penalty under Despotism/Tribal governments.
- "Colossus" 200, Obsolete by Automobile (that allows building to increase trade even more):
+1 Trade per worked tile in the city (already producing trade).
- "Copernicus' Observatory" 300, Obsolete by Computers (that increases even more the science production):
+1 Science per worked tile in the city.
- "Hanging Gardens" 200, Obsolete by Electricity (that increases Colosseum effect):
+1 Content in every city. +4 Luxury in the city where it is built.
- "Mausoleum of Mausolos" 200, Obsolete by Explosives:
+1 Content in every city with Walls. Your cities cannot be incited to revolt. +3 Content where it is built.
- "Temple of Artemis" 200, Requires Temple, Obsolete by Theology (enables wonder with similar effect):
+2 Content in every city with Temple.
- "Michelangelo's Chapel" 400, Requires Cathedral:
+3 Content in every city with Cathedral.
- "J.S. Bach's Cathedral" 400:
+2 Luxuries in every city.
- "Cure For Cancer" 600:
+2 Luxuries in every city. -10% chance of illness.
- (#)"Shakespeare's Theatre" 300:
Elvis Specialist_Output = 3 for Every Nation. +1 Luxury in every city, +6 Luxury where it is built.
- (#)"A.Smith's Trading Co" 400, Requires Stock Exchange:
Taxman Specialist_Output = 3 for Every Nation. Free upkeep for buildings that cost 1 gold, in every city with Stock Exchange.
- (#)"Darwin's Voyage" 400:
Scientist Specialist_Output = 3 for Every Nation. +1 Science in every city.
- (#)"Great Library" 300, Requires Library:
Doubles the effect of Library for Every Nation. Gives an immediate technology advance. +4 Science where it is built.
- (#)"Isaac Newton's College" 400, Requires University:
Doubles the effect of University for Every Nation. Gives an immediate technology advance. +6 Science where it is built.
- (#)"Internet" 600, Requires Research Lab:
Doubles the effect of Research Lab for Every Nation. Gives an immediate technology advance. Reveals all cities in the map for the owner.
- "Lighthouse" 200, Obsolete by Engineering (Destroyer):
+1 move, and Veteran built, for Trireme and Sea units.
- "Magellan's Expedition" 400, Obsolete by Nuclear Power (that increases even more movement of sea units):
+1 move, and +50% chance to become veteran, for Sea units (No triremes).
- "Sun Tzu's War Academy" 300, Obsolete by Mobile Warfare:
Veteran built, and +50% chance to become veteran, for Military Land units (No wheeled).
- "Statue of Zeus" 200, Obsolete by Conscription (enables wonder with similar effect):
+1 Military Content, +1 unit free of upkeep per city.
- "King Richard's Crusade" 300, Obsolete by Communism (Police Station):
+1 Military Content. Under Monarchy: neutralises all military unhappiness.
- "Women's Suffrage" 600:
+1 Military Content. Under Democracy: +2 Military Content. Summed to Police Stations effect.
- "Marco Polo's Embassy" 200, No obsolete:
Embassy with all players.
- "Eiffel Tower" 300:
+10 to AI love for the owner. Reduces the pollution caused by the population in all your cities (-25%).
- "Statue of Liberty" 400:
Disables Has_Senate effect, No Anarchy periods when government changes.
- (#)"United Nations" 600:
+10 to AI love for the owner. Revolution_When_Unhappy for Every Nation.
- "Great Wall" 300, Obsolete by Machine Tools (Artillery):
+50% Defense bonus against land units in every city, and cities do not lose Population due to attacks.
- "Leonardo's Workshop" 400, Obsolete by Combustion:
Upgrades one obsolete unit per game turn.
- "Hoover Dam" 600, Requires Factory:
Gives to every Hydro Plant the same effect than Solar Plants (-25% pollution).
- (#)"Manhattan Project" 600:
Enables nuclear units for Every Nation.
- (#)"Apollo Program" 600:
Enables space race for Every Nation. Makes entire map permanently visible for the owner.
Special "Cold War" effect: if Manhattan Project and United Nations were built, every nation with nuclear power receives the Has_Senate effect, until the Apollo Program is finished.

MAYOR CHANGES SINCE v0.1
----------------
Changes:
- Wonders and Governments rebalanced again. Now AIs use all governments and build almost every wonder.
Doubled the unit upkeep for Democratic and Fundamentalist governments. Fundamentalism receives -50% penalty to Science instead of penalty to Luxury. Communists do not pay upkeep for buildings with cost=1. Republic use both gold and shields for unit upkeep. Readjusted Empire Sizes.
- Readjusted Tech Tree requirements, and Tech Costs. Now AI reaches future techs.
- Foodbox sizes more similar to civ3. Granary keeps same amount of food for every city size.
- Removed population cost for Workers and Engineers. Created Migrants instead, that can migrate 1 population among cities, and can be captured.
- Added waste of food for cities far from the Palace (halved by Courthouse).
- Deserts with river gain +2 food from irrigation. No cities over Mountains. No pollution over Forests or Jungles.
- Pollution caused by population increased by certain Buildings instead of by Techs. Adjusted effect of Super highways and Offshore platforms.
- Production bonus by Factory and Mfg Plant reduced to +25% each (was +50%).
- Enabled Trade Routes again, but only to foreign cities. Halved the revenues compared to default ruleset. Caravans/Freights can only travel over roads/rivers, and can be captured.
- Terrain transformations available with Fusion Power.
- The Waste and Corruption caused by distance to capital are reduced with the discovery of Trade and The Corporation (respectively).
- Units with Gold upkeep need also Food upkeep if the city supports more units than its population size.
- Aqueduct is cheaper if the city is placed near rivers or lakes.
- Harder AI levels are now less agresive against other AIs, but against human players AIs behave the same than in default rules.
Units:
- Minor adjustments to some costs, mainly infantry, ships, bombarders and missiles.
- Fanatics 1 pop cost and no military unhappiness. Crusaders available for every government.
- Given Marine ability to Legion, Musketeer and Rifleman.
- Disabled trireme capability to navigate rivers. Caravels keep default stats, but they can't attack to land.
- Reduced hit points of Ironclad, Submarine and Battleship. Doubled the defense of Destroyers against Submarines.
- Reduced firepower to 1 for every unit.
- Given CityBuster to Artillery and Howitzer (halved firepower in open field), and to Cruise Missile.
- Given Bombarder ability to Helicopters and Bombers, and increased hit points. Helicopters can carry 1 infantry unit.
Known bugs/glitches:
- The mines placed over tundra terrains are not showed in the map.

THANKS:
-------
To every people who collaborated to create this wonderful Freeciv game, included Sid Meier and Firaxis
Specially to those who programmed the Ruleset modding capabilities and the AI capable to play with them.

Last edited by wieder (12.01.2015 21:47:31)

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#2 12.01.2015 12:30:46

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

wieder wrote:

- Every player starts with 1 free tech, 1 settler, 1 worker and 1 explorer.

This will mean a very slow start which is always bad for one-turn-per-day. How about some more settlers and workers?


- Min distance between cities = 3.

This will create problems for city placement because the game is taking place on small-ish islands. Doesn't settler cost (two population) cover the smallpox problem?



Also, can we have the setting to establish diplomatic contact without diplomat units (and, if necessary, lose it after ten turns of non-communication)? Since there is no tech exchange, diplomatic contact ability has less importance so can be liberalised.

Also, what is the status on gold exchange? Is there any kind of penalty? Again, since there is no tech exchange, I'd like to propose free flow of gold so that it remains a mainly multiplayer game.

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#3 12.01.2015 12:49:51

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

"This will mean a very slow start which is always bad for one-turn-per-day. How about some more settlers and workers?"

Sorry. I forgot to say that that ruleset was the base for the game and this no longer applies. Maybe I will need to completely remove it from the final post.  In LT33 there are 4 settlers, 2 workers and one explorer just like in LT33.

"This will create problems for city placement because the game is taking place on small-ish islands. Doesn't settler cost (two population) cover the smallpox problem?"

Also the min distance is 5 for cities. I didn't notice that from there before I posted it in hurry. Sorry about that.

There is a 25% penalty for gold trading. This is there because it makes it slightly harder to create huge alliances and give financial support for any player. It's there, but the penalty is something that matters.

You will need to have diplos for diplomatic contacts because it's a strategic choice. You will need embassies for knowing what techs your enemy has and it would make things too comfortable if it was too easy to see this. Now you can protect against enemy diplomats establishing embassies.

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#4 12.01.2015 20:11:46

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

wieder wrote:

Also the min distance is 5 for cities. I didn't notice that from there before I posted it in hurry. Sorry about that.

Care to run that logic by me once again, please? Why is minimum distance so huge?

There is a 25% penalty for gold trading. This is there because it makes it slightly harder to create huge alliances and give financial support for any player.

On the contrary. Large alliances will easily sacrifice those 25% of funds to stuff the top few players player with money at the expense of weaker ones who have agreed to become the vassals. Instead,you'll handicap smaller alliances, where players have to take care of every coin. I really don't understand your reasoning.

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#5 12.01.2015 21:04:12

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

The minimum distance has been that huge to compensate the 3x moves. It doesn't take all tha advantage of 3x moves but some. At the same time we have more strategic options for attack and defense since you need to move through more tiles.

In my experience having only 4 tiles between the cities (=min distance=5) starts to hurt you once you really start to grow. I would prefer at least 5-6 tiles between the cities if I can afford that in the early game. At least for few best cities. Having 3 as the min distance would result with weak nations. It has happened for someone in the history smile

Large alliances will have trouble having open dialogs for gold. More players having them open with gives more risk of giving some accidentaly. That will cost. Also in the early game when the big alliances have poor contacts they can't gain advantage by giving gold from player a to b to c to d. Most will be lost on the way.

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#6 12.01.2015 21:23:23

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

wieder wrote:

At least for few best cities. Having 3 as the min distance would result with weak nations.

How does that make a nation weak?

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#7 12.01.2015 21:28:06

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

"How does that make a nation weak?"

Once the cities grow to size 10-20 there are too few good tiles around them. In optimal situation you could use only the good tiles and leave the low quality ones alone. If there are 5 tiles around the cities, cities can have pretty good tiles with size 15 but with 3 tiles between them it wouldn't be the case.

You could of course build more cities but at some point you would have too much unhappiness compared to someone with bigger cities. Unhappiness because of the empire size on the other hand is needed for making fast expansion with conquering more difficult.

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#8 13.01.2015 00:31:45

Luca
Player
Posts: 15

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Thanks for this summary!
So concerning to trade, is the following information up to date?
"Created a new unit class for Caravans and Freights that can only travel on roads, railroads, rivers or ships. They can only establish trade routes to foreign cities. And they can be captured."
Do "Rebalanced Trade Routes: halved the revenues" mean that a caravan produces science and gold when it arrives to a foreign city, and precisely half of the gold and half of the science tha in the default freeciv ruleset? (I ask, because I remember that the formula for computing this revenues changed several times in past years). Thanks

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#9 13.01.2015 00:39:29

Luca
Player
Posts: 15

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Sorry, I have found just now the answer to my question on another thread.

wieder wrote:

I forgot to remove the killunhomed from there. Sorry about that. It was a quick summary but stuff like that shouldn't happen.

The trade routes are gone because no one figured out how to make them balanced enough with the big maps. Some games have been won with mass producing caravans only and that makes games boring.

One solution may be the following: removing the initial (una tantum) gold/science revenue, but keeping the trade permnently added to the city by the trade route...

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#10 13.01.2015 06:24:44

HanduMan
Player
Posts: 106

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Luca: Trade routes cannot be established at all. This is not mentioned in any of the change lists (or I have missed it).

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#11 13.01.2015 08:07:52

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Yeah, the problem is that I don't have any list of Longturn specific changes that have been effective for ages. Trade routes are one of those. I will try to make some kind of list of all those by tomorrow but there may still be some things I have missed.

Maybe I'll edit the original post and add a explanation of the server settings. Either way this will be slightly messy. Half of the LT34 players played on LT33 and would like to know the differences to LT33. The rest of the players played some previous game, maybe some single player Freeciv or possibly some commercial version of the game.

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#12 13.01.2015 13:47:26

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

wieder wrote:

"How does that make a nation weak?"

Once the cities grow to size 10-20 there are too few good tiles around them. In optimal situation you could use only the good tiles and leave the low quality ones alone. If there are 5 tiles around the cities, cities can have pretty good tiles with size 15 but with 3 tiles between them it wouldn't be the case.

You could of course build more cities but at some point you would have too much unhappiness compared to someone with bigger cities. Unhappiness because of the empire size on the other hand is needed for making fast expansion with conquering more difficult.

And this is what I've been talking about. I can think of ways to avoid the situation you are describing, they may be good, may be bad and unsuccessful, but no, you set the mechanics in a way to prevent me from even trying. You are channelling gameplay in a certain direction and not allowing a wider set of options.

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#13 13.01.2015 14:31:46

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

If it was 3 tiles, it would prevent players from using the blocking strategy the way they have been using in the past. If it was 5 tiles, it will prevent players from building cities on some places. Both settings will rule out some options and for years LT had been using 5 as a value for the minimum distance of the cities. It's not something I have changed.

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#14 13.01.2015 17:07:47

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

wieder wrote:

for years LT had been using 5 as a value for the minimum distance of the cities.

Fair enough. But wasn't it mentioned that in one of the recent games it was 4?

Also, how many of those games were island games?

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#15 13.01.2015 17:48:32

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

At least LT31 was an islands game. My first game was LT30 and I don't have information about the previous games.

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#16 15.01.2015 15:29:27

Kryon
Player
Posts: 358

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

This will be the 1st LT game (that I know of) that will have space race enabled. We will see how that goes.

Another important change is that this will be the first LT game where official survivors are allowed (although in limited number). Once the game ends, I will calculate rank scores such that the survivors will not lose nor win any points.

Last edited by Kryon (15.01.2015 17:43:03)

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#17 15.01.2015 16:42:37

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

"This will be the 1st LT game (that I know of) that will have space race enabled."

I think that there was a game when it was enabled but can't be sure about that. In any case, this is something new to most players playing on LT. At least for me smile Also, an alliance can't win with the space race because there can be only one space race winner. I hope this will make the alliances more unstable and allow some alliances to start fight with each other if someone decides to launch the space ship big_smile

"Once the game ends, I will calculate rank scores such that the idlers will not lose nor win any points."

The idlers?

What will happen with the rankings if the space race victory happens? With that everyone else except the space race winner becomes a survivor and there could be lots of those.

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#18 15.01.2015 17:44:47

Kryon
Player
Posts: 358

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

I meant survivors smile Edited the post.

I will consider space race winner as the winner and count everyone else as losers but they will lose only 10% (similar to a ffa game).

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#19 15.01.2015 19:32:36

edrim
Ganoes Paran
Posts: 479

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Dont you think that if two nations (or more) send a same spaceship same turn they should get w win?

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#20 15.01.2015 19:39:08

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

"Dont you think that if two nations (or more) send a same spaceship same turn they should get w win?"

Good point.

We had that in the Finnish Freeciv game. In that game there were two winners really. The one with the scores and the one with the ship.

Quick opinions please?

I will add a victory condition for that with or without opinions. The test game is over soon (The Maho scenario for me:) and we probably start in few hours.

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#21 19.01.2015 09:09:39

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Ok, some things here are not clear, to me, at least. Wieder, could you please extract the current settings from the original post here and glue them into the Sticky thread with LT34 settings? For example, I see two different Government tables here, as is also the case with some other data. I'm sure there is an explanation in the text which of them is the correct one for this game, but for quick reference this is unusable.

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#22 19.01.2015 09:15:30

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

The sticky post has the current settings. Maybe I should be more clear about that.

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#23 19.01.2015 09:53:46

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 804

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

Yes, but it doesn't contain all of it. Governments? Granary?

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#24 19.01.2015 10:09:52

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,585

Re: The changes made for LT34 (all) and the winning conditions

There shouldn't be changes to governments or granaries in comparison to LT33.

Or do you mean full explanation of the ruleset? That would be quite hard to do since all the ruleset files should be explained there. In any case, the best way to understand the ruleset is to connect to the game and browse the help files.

There is no connection limit on LT34 for the first 10 turns. You can stay online 24/7 if you wish. After that it would be cool that people would let others o move in peace (for obvious reasons not including +-1 hour to TC) and log out in an hour or two.

At least if you are online more than two hours without disconnecting, always answer as soon as possible if someone talks to you and asks is you are really online or just idling there.

It's understandable that you may forget your client on but not understandable if you do it every day. Use common sense.

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