#1 14.10.2017 02:53:40

kevin551
Player
Posts: 298

Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

The early game in SG1 is now about over.
Much quicker than normal, because we started with some developed cities and some science.
So time for some comments on this stage of the game.

1/.  Food and science are too fast. Growth is way too fast.

2/. The early combat is seriously degraded from normal freeciv and pre-the-new-admin longturn games.

Warriors are now essentially useless, because they are relatively way more expensive than their opponents. (phalanx, horse, archer).
The new version of longturn is like playing chess without the pawns.

Catapults are also rendered useless because of the lack of veterancy, and the movement restrictions.

3/. The power factors for promoted workers are way too high.
A green worker can move 2 tiles and do 2 units of work.
A vet worker can move 2 1/3 tiles  and do 3 units of work.
A vv worker can move 2 2/3 tiles  and do 4 units of work.
An elite worker can move 3 tiles  and do 5 units of work.

The increase in ability to work should be proportional to the increase in movement.

4/. Revolution length is set to 1. It should be 2 to provide some penalty and risk to changing governments.

Last edited by kevin551 (14.10.2017 02:55:35)

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#2 14.10.2017 11:26:33

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,029

Re: Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

Thanks for the feedback.

SG1 effectively has pretty much the same ruleset as LT38 has.

1) How fast should it be? would you prefer the old setting where the cities always get 10 food with granary or is there something else that should be changed? The harbours were reverted back to the old values in LT39 and split into 2 different buildings for LT40.

2) The idea with warriors costing the same while the other units had  the costs cut was to balance the number of the units built. Back in the days almost everyone was building pretty much only warriors and the better units were not used that much. This of course comes to the old topic about encouraging the players to do something. Some consider it bad to make for example the phalanx unit less expensive because that kind of encourages the players to build something else than warriors. However we could switch back to the old(ish?) values for LT39 if the players want it?

The catapults and cannons now have the citybuxter flag meaning that they get double firepower when attacking cities. Back in the days they were built as v (with barracks) but no double firepower. We can of course switch back to the old values if that works better for the gameplay. The old catapult had attack of 6 and the new one has 5. The new ones are crappy against units outside cities but quite good against units in cities.

What about movement restrictions? The catas should be able to go on some terrains and also attack non native terrains (with keyboard commands at least) and move elsewhere with roads. Not sure but I think this is the way it has been for ages?

LT32: veteran_work_raise_chance = 12, 9, 9, 9, 7, 7, 7, 5, 5, 5
LT38: veteran_work_raise_chance = 9, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 0

I suppose this is right?

About the move/work ratio, I'm not sure how it's exactly defined on the ruleset but I think it's veteran_power_fact and veteran_move_bonus and they should match to each other. Not sure but changing that might also change the power factors for other units too?

The revolution length was planned to be 1 because this was supposed to be a short game. Will be 2 for LT39 but 1 for LT40. It was a surprise that the revo len was 0 (random) for SG1. We need to check that from the save game next time. Could be 2 for SG2, yeah.

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#3 14.10.2017 12:58:42

Sketlux
Player
From: Germany
Posts: 73

Re: Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

I agree with 1) and 2) and 4). 3) doesnt border me, those 2 mp are annoyingly slow! So veterancy helps!

Big problem of this scenario is tech trading. Since I havent traded one single tech in LT38 I thought it woudnt happen here. But its simply catapultating the game forward to my discontent and we are moving too fast towards steel. At this rate I would suggest not building all those wonders and just end it the conventional way.
Also, you can unrestrictedly form alliances. Not a good thing. Before someone says Im a hippocrat, I took advantage of all those things but it doesnt mean I like it.

Last edited by Sketlux (14.10.2017 12:59:24)

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#4 14.10.2017 13:16:28

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,029

Re: Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

How to restrict growth? One way to do it might be changing the sizes of the boodbox. For example keeping the current sizes for city sizes 1-8 but switching from 40 to 50 after that. One of the reasons why the cities grow so fast is that the settings are tuned to make early growth happen much faster. Currently there were comments about the early cities growing too slowly. Also, there have been attempts to make it easier and more reasonable to grow the cities beyond 8.

The 2x moves indeed make the green units to move really slowly. This wasn't thought about when the ruleset was changed from 3x to 2x. Maybe not that big issue with 3x? Cannons and catapults have 2 moves. Artilleries have 3 and howizers 4.

Tech trading... Yes, that wasn't checked. Apparently the server settings are saved o the save file and no longer can be changed by just changing the .serv file. Next time we will know better.

I'm not sure how to prevent allying without restrictions. Unless making this a team game.

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#5 17.10.2017 16:29:47

kevin551
Player
Posts: 298

Re: Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

Sketlux wrote:

... its simply catapulting the game forward to my discontent and we are moving too fast towards steel...

Yes. I too am disappointed by the pace of research. It was obvious from the test game that this would be a very fast game, with only 1 viable strategy.
It's a shame this is a good map.

Wieder - my comments about catapults being useless in the early game, refers to the part of the game before construction.
Perhaps catapults / cannon may have a use later.

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#6 23.10.2017 14:31:40

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 348

Re: Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

Actually, I'm not sure science is too fast. It may seem so at the beginning while we are at low.-cost techs, but it will slow down eventually and you should keep in mind that the number of cities will not grow significantly as it was the case in other games.

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#7 12.11.2017 12:05:11

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,029

Re: Suggestions for the next Ruleset.

How is the science now? About 20 more turns have passed since the last post here. Is the game still going to end in about one month?

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