#1 08.08.2018 02:53:10

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 61

By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

Vectron smiles upon all nations which adopt Fundamentalism.  Praise Vectron for the strength it gives you far beyond what is listed in the Documentation.

It is said that buildings like Temples give no happiness to cities?  By Vectron's wrath, this is heresy!  All happiness buildings have full effect. In spite of this, Vectron still grants us gold for every citizen made content (which may be further multiplied by markets), regardless of the source. 
Happiness buildings costing maintenance?  It is a pity, but Vectron giveth with one hand, and taketh with the other.

It is said that Science suffers under Fundamentalism.  Yet by Vectron's Golden wings we are still blessed! All trade in every city from the largest to the smallest is enhanced by +25%!  Vectron's grace nullifies this disadvantage and fills our coffers with gold at the same time.

Observe this city blessed by Vectron, and tell me it is not receiving miraculous abundance:
wg9xadl.png

Praise Vectron!

(for those who have not embraced Vectron yet, a primer:  https://vimeo.com/202443968 )

Last edited by Hans_Lemurson (08.08.2018 03:34:36)

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#2 08.08.2018 09:04:47

Lord_P
Player
Posts: 163

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

By Vectrons sturdy trousers, you are right!

Its way too powerful as it is. I am used to having to compensate for poor research when using Tribal+Pyramids gov for high production, but with Fundamentalism you also get insanely rich at the same time. Its the extra trade per tile that does it..
I think it would only be fair if none of the happiness improvements worked and there where also lower empire size limits to cause more unhappiness. Then the fact you have to use a lot of your trade for luxuries would balance things out.

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#3 08.08.2018 11:12:10

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,466

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

Yeah... Funda was boosted several times (was it 4 or 5?) between the gams because almost no one was using it and also complained how it was too feeble smile

Now it's probably time to take a step back and iterate once more so we can have it balanced.

How about this: max setting for sci/tax/lux is 60% and the sci penalty is 35% instead of 25%. Or even 40%. I think 50% was definitely too much anyway.

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#4 08.08.2018 17:22:47

fran
Player
Posts: 138

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

Hans_Lemurson wrote:

It is said that buildings like Temples give no happiness to cities?  By Vectron's wrath, this is heresy!  All happiness buildings have full effect.

I doubt this, but you can check it easily. In your city's dialog there is the happiness tab. If you open it there is the buildings section. If you click on it it shows you what buildings do.

https://ibb.co/k9OE0e

In this example you can see that buildings reduce  unhappiness by 4,
courthouse, temple, mysticism and hanging gardens.

What does it say in your case?

Last edited by fran (08.08.2018 17:29:27)

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#5 08.08.2018 18:24:40

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 61

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

By Vectron's jolly nose, here is the Happiness report from Bronswiek!  (The "Buildings" row is obscured by the text popup, but since Nationality contributes nothing, it shows the same citizen happiness.)
1xyttqx.png
I am receiving +6 content citizens from various buildings and wonders.
I know I'm getting +1 from the courthouse, but I'm less certain about some other values.  Hanging Gardens and Temple of Artemis should give +2 contents each, but that would push the total to 7, so I'm not sure how it's calculated.  Judging by other cities, the presence/absence of a Temple is worth 3 content citizens, which suggests only a +1 bonus to the Temple from T.-of-Artemis.

As for the gold bonus:
Counting up the total tile yields in Bronswiek gives me 51 total trade.  Vectron's Blessing multiplies this by 1.25, to about 64 Trade.  There is an unaccounted for surplus of +2 trade reported, but it is known that Vectron works in mysterious ways (and the rest of the numbers are all based on the value of 66, so it doesn't really matter where it came from).

66 Trade is reduced to 57 by the taint of unbelief, and 70% of that is converted into Gold for a base gold income of +40.

Given that there is a marketplace, and the total Gold produced (ignoring costs) is 69, this must mean that the value before being multiplied by 150% by the Market was 46.  This 6 gold discrepancy can be explained by the +6 content citizens generated by buildings in the city. 46 * 1.5 = 69.

So as you can see, by Vectron's miraculous elbow, Happiness buildings give both happiness AND Gold.

Praise Vectron!

Last edited by Hans_Lemurson (08.08.2018 18:28:51)

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#6 08.08.2018 18:57:40

fran
Player
Posts: 138

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

Hans_Lemurson wrote:

I am receiving +6 content citizens from various buildings and wonders.
I know I'm getting +1 from the courthouse, but I'm less certain about some other values.  Hanging Gardens and Temple of Artemis should give +2 contents each, but that would push the total to 7, so I'm not sure how it's calculated.

Ok, you're right. The Gardens give 1 content (4 lux for capital is another thing), so it's 6 as it should be.
Thanks.

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#7 09.08.2018 00:53:22

jwrober
Player
From: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 45

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

wieder wrote:

Yeah... Funda was boosted several times (was it 4 or 5?) between the games because almost no one was using it and also complained how it was too feeble smile

Now it's probably time to take a step back and iterate once more so we can have it balanced.

How about this: max setting for sci/tax/lux is 60% and the sci penalty is 35% instead of 25%. Or even 40%. I think 50% was definitely too much anyway.

I think it was at least 3 times. Definitely not feeble in LT43 or LT44. I don't want to dial back funda too much. I am not sure its "too powerful" as is, however I think others don't agree with me. I would be in favor of increasing the sci penalty to 35% vs the current 25%. Changing this and reducing the max sci/tax/lux seems counter intuitive to me. Just do one. Also, potentially dial back a smidgen the benefit of some buildings to gold/happiness. Wonders stay the same, however I think some of the improvements currently give potentially too much.

Last edited by jwrober (09.08.2018 00:53:53)

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#8 09.08.2018 11:19:52

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,466

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

What of the improvements give too much?

One way to deal with funda might be preventing the universities from working with it.

I'll try to figure out why you get both gold and happiness from happiness buildings. However if it gets complicated we need to think something else for LT45.

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#9 09.08.2018 12:55:02

fran
Player
Posts: 138

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

Strangely, if everybody is getting abundant gold from demo nobody thinks about how to weaken it.

Last edited by fran (09.08.2018 12:55:19)

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#10 09.08.2018 13:26:05

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,466

Re: By Vectron's beard, Fundamentalism is amazing!

There was this idea of allowing the players to incite the cities of any gov but that would apply only to LT46 and the follow up games.

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