#1 08.08.2018 11:26:42

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,466

LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

Are there features or changes that should be reverted or removed? The thing with funda is one and the thing with the elephants another. Anything else you can think of?

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#2 08.08.2018 18:33:33

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 61

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

Archers.  Bombard units are fun, but the Archer's main utility was as a "Scout" to see all the defenders in a city.

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#3 08.08.2018 19:06:04

arkan
Player
Posts: 41

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

I second Hans' request with regards to archers.
Mine would be to restore the traditional granary sizes as they are in civ2civ3 and most previous recent LT games.
That is

City size     1 |  2 |  3 |  4 |  5 |  6 |  7 |  8+
granary size 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 30 | 30 | 40

instead of

City size     1 |  2 |  3 |  4 |  5 |  6 |  7 |  8+
granary size 16 | 18 | 20 | 22 | 24 | 30 | 40 | 50

Now I know that some don't share my view on the subject.

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#4 08.08.2018 21:13:59

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,466

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

Archers are no longer able to bombard.

Now reverted the granary foodbox sizes to the values they were on civ2civ3 + also reverted the actual granary effect to give 10 food instead of 50%. 

Let's see what we will do with funda.

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#5 09.08.2018 00:35:21

jwrober
Player
From: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 45

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

IMO, leave Fundamentalism alone.

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#6 09.08.2018 13:21:01

arkan
Player
Posts: 41

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

wieder wrote:

Now reverted the granary foodbox sizes to the values they were on civ2civ3

Nice, thanks.

wieder wrote:

+ also reverted the actual granary effect to give 10 food instead of 50%.

This on the other hand defeats the purpose of restoring the granary sizes.
I don't see why the granary should be crippled to 10 food. With such a change one would need 30 food to grow 1 size a city with a granary above size 9 instead of 25 as it was in LT44.
I'd rather leave the 50% food effect everyone expects.

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#7 09.08.2018 14:40:04

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,466

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

The original requirements for city growth with granaries in civ2civ3 were:

10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 20, 20, 30

In previous games they were:

10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 15, 15, 20

With LT44 settings:

8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 20, 25

The problem with earlier settings is that size 6 cities are kind of to powerful when building settlers or migrants. Maybe there is some way to fix that?

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#8 09.08.2018 21:00:08

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 61

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

I had no problem with the steadily growing granary sizes of LT44.  Sudden jumps in food cost are bad, since they create clear "optimally powerful" points.

The only downside is that since food-overflow is lost, you need to recalculate the optimal surplus for a young city every time it grows.

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#9 10.08.2018 08:44:13

Lord_P
Player
Posts: 163

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

Theres nothing wrong with the granaries...

Fundamentalism is a bit too powerful but as the changes are still new maybe let it play out for a few more games before changing.
I really like the idea of having some kind of early bombard unit as it promotes combining different unit types and more interesting strategies sad But yeah, archers are too weak to be effective and did just show how many defenders.

Research rate.
This was adjusted in recent games and I think now the effects are clear.
LT43 - As much as I am a fan of long slow games with higher research costs... In this game the rate at which the price increases for the later techs is too high, even the largest nations are struggling to research anything and global warming will probably kill everyone before the deadlock caused by strong defence of riflemen/marines can be broken.
LT44 - While in this game research seems too fast.. probably because its a team game with tech trading..
Some where in between for the next game?

Can we have amphibious attacks for Swordsmen back again? I miss that a lot... Maybe a specialised, but weaker, ship attack unit would be a better role for archers. Cause some opportunistic chaos in the early game but then be innefective once players get their cities properly defended.

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#10 10.08.2018 13:28:19

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 701

Re: LT45 is supposed to be a more traditional game

Lord_P wrote:

Maybe a specialised, but weaker, ship attack unit would be a better role for archers. Cause some opportunistic chaos in the early game but then be innefective once players get their cities properly defended.

Here’s an idea: Warriors.

It makes very much sense from the realism point of view. Why can’t Swordsmen/Legion be amphibious? Because this unit depends on their battle line and internal coordination. Once they disembark, they require time to establish a line and become effective. But once they do that, they are very dangerous.

Warriors, however, is just a bunch of armed people. Their weakness is not too much organisation - thus low attack and defence - but at the same time this means they don’t require much (or any) time to become battle-ready once disembarked.

Gameplay-wise: This would also give them a purpose besides becoming early shield-eaters and police.

And no, this doesn’t mean their successors, Musketeers, need to be amphibious, too.

About tech progress: Tech Upkeep allows you to fine-tune the tech cost progression. Someone needs to make an analysis, but it should be fairly simple if you know basics of programming. If nobody else does it by then, I will when I get home in a week or so.

Standard tech tree was, what, 80k bulbs for the whole tree, new tech tree was 500k? So we need something in between.

Last edited by Corbeau (10.08.2018 13:30:25)

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