#1 14.10.2018 10:13:42

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,596

Fixing or changing the siege units

LT45 was supposed to have a change that would allow the siege units to become veterans with barracks. For some reason I haven't checked yet it never got there.

Instead all the siege units have the citybuster flag starting from the catapult. The attack values are slightly reduced and the units are not that great for anything but attacking cities. Originally catapults and cannons are not citybusters and they have greater attack values. In the old games howitzers were kind of too powerful in the end game.

How would you change the siege units?

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#2 14.10.2018 10:42:24

Wahazar
Player
Posts: 138

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

Judging from LT44 besiege, I found artillery completely useless for defending city: fresh cannon was worse than fresh produced cavalry while same price.
Definitely lack of barrack veteran effect for Land Siege was a bad idea, which breaks game balance.
Whole fight against invasion in LT44 was boring, when I realized, that trying to any counterattack either with cavalry or cannon is counterproductive if compared to the dumb making of fanatics heap.

Citybuster flag without veterancy from barracks make whole situation even worse.
I propose other methods of citybuster flag balance:
less movement points
or
lack of CanOccupyCity flag for Land Siege (thus artillery cannot conquer city by its own)

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#3 14.10.2018 13:47:34

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,596

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

How would you change the values?

[unit_catapult]
name          = _("Catapult")
class         = "Big Siege"
tech_req      = "Mathematics"
obsolete_by   = "Cannon"
graphic       = "u.catapult"
graphic_alt   = "-"
sound_move    = "m_catapult"
sound_move_alt = "m_generic"
sound_fight   = "f_catapult"
sound_fight_alt = "f_generic"
build_cost    = 30
pop_cost      = 0
attack        = 5
defense       = 1
hitpoints     = 10
firepower     = 1
move_rate     = 3
vision_radius_sq = 18
transport_cap = 0
fuel          = 0
uk_happy      = 1
uk_shield     = 1
uk_food       = 1
uk_gold       = 1
flags         = "CityBuster", "Capturable"

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#4 14.10.2018 16:25:04

Wahazar
Player
Posts: 138

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

Assuming that barrack veteran effect exists for such units, the best method of balance of "citybuster"+"veteran" strength is, in my opinion decrease mobility by 1:
move_rate     = 2
(and accordingly 3 for artillery, 5 for howitzer).

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#5 14.10.2018 17:57:44

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 832

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

I don't know what you mean by "counterattack by cannon". Cannons are not made for counterattacking. They are made for besieging and attacking cities.

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#6 14.10.2018 18:04:10

Wahazar
Player
Posts: 138

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

Corbeau wrote:

I don't know what you mean by "counterattack by cannon". Cannons are not made for counterattacking. They are made for besieging and attacking cities.

So what are you doing if there are cannons+infantry around your city? Sitting and watching?

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#7 14.10.2018 18:12:36

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 832

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

Ah, ok, but that's not counterattacking. And if that is the case, I'd say a veteran attack units would be more efficient.

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#8 15.10.2018 22:48:55

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 144

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

I'm of the personal opinion that the entire combat system is in need of a rethink, but that's a different discussion. wink

Artillery units being specialized city-attackers seems reasonable, but when combined with stack-kill combat in the open field, and massive defense-bonuses in cities, the end result is that Artillery is just the currency you spend to "buy" cities.

But of course, that would be the case with any unit which had the distinction of being the most cost-effective city attacker.

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#9 15.10.2018 23:07:31

Corbeau
Player
Posts: 832

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

That's exactly why such units will ALL have a "Bombarder" flag in LT42 wink

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#10 16.10.2018 08:37:38

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 144

Re: Fixing or changing the siege units

Corbeau wrote:

That's exactly why such units will ALL have a "Bombarder" flag in LT42 wink

But will it get rid of all this "Hitpoints and Firepower" nonsense?
Hmm...actually, the HP stat makes sense ONLY in the context of Bombardment.

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